by Doctor Science
Warning: this post quotes deeply upsetting threats of anti-gay violence. Turn away if you need to protect yourself.
On 04.06.15 at 2:02 am UT (that's 9PM Eastern time on April 5), long-time commenter MPAVictoria posted a comment in the "Sucky Hugos" thread at Crooked Timber, quoting from John C. Wright, on his post about the "perversion" of Legend of Korra:
"Men abhor homosexuals on a visceral level. While girls sometimes are attracted to them, they tend to be 'bishounen' rather handsome if effete men.I bolded that last paragraph so it will stand out to your eyes as it does to mine. It's one of the most horrible, hateful, and yes, evil things I have ever seen from a living person I might realistically encounter. I physically reared back from the screen when I read it, it's so shockingly vile.
So a man who is attractive is attractive for his spiritual qualities of leadership, manliness, courage, and strength, even if his face is as pretty as that of Humphrey Bogart, who turns out to be homosexual is neither attractive to a male nor to a female general audience.
In any case, I have never heard of a group of women descended on a lesbian couple and beating them to death with axhandles and tire-irons, but that is the instinctive reaction of men towards fags."
I didn't include in my last post, which listed some examples of evil coming from Wright, because when I went to check the quote the paragraph ended at "tire-irons. The phrase ", but that is the instinctive reaction of men towards fags" wasn't there. This would have been at maybe 8PM Eastern time on April 6, so about 1AM UT on April 7 -- less than 24 hours after MPAVictoria made her comment.
This morning I asked Victoria if she'd added anything to what Wright had written, and she replied that she'd just copy-pasted (and regretted not taking a screencap). The Way Back Machine wasn't helpful -- they'd captured the page before Wright added the comment, which is time-stamped "Tuesday, December 30th 2014 at 4:22 pm" (on a post stamped December 29, 2014 @ 12:04 am).
However, it turns out that Google's cache for the page (when I looked this morning, and again checking just now) was taken at Jan 28, 2015 15:50:59 GMT, and shows:
In any case, I have never heard of a group of women descended on a lesbian couple and beating them to death with axhandles and tire-irons, but that is the instinctive reaction of men towards fags.I haven't been able to make a screencapture of the entire page due to baffling technical difficulties; let me know if you snag one. I have archived a full copy of the cached page in case this version gets overwritten.
So yes, let the record show that John C. Wright believes that the "instinctive reaction of men towards fags" is brutal, mob murder. I'm sure he'll tell us that *he* would never do such a thing, being above such instinctive reactions, and that he's shocked, shocked at the idea that he might ... or that he rather admires those manly men who give in to their instinctive horror and do what needs doin'. Instinctively.
But the record also shows that Wright isn't willing to stand by his words or defend them -- or even act as though they were ever there. He didn't explain, apologize (HA!), or discuss what he said -- he just made it go away, sometime between when Victoria made her comment, and when I went to check it.
This is who he is.
I'll re-iterate what I said in my previous post: Wright is one of the two people likely to have a real benefit from the Puppies campaign, the other being Theodore Beale aka Vox Day. VD is widely recognized in the sf community as humanoid toxic waste, but Wright hasn't been tarred with the brush of his desserts. He's so much *cleaner* and better-spoken, with his gentlemanly air and relatively coherent sentences ... but he's still evil. This is what it looks like.
The rest of Wright's comment is actually unintentionally hilarious, once you've stopped throwing up. He's replying to a comment from the self-styled "Joe Cool" beginning, "Lesbians, lesbians, lesbians. Why is it always lesbians?" -- asking what's in fact a good question, about why are lesbians so much more visible in fictional media than gay men are.
Wright opines it's because women are admired for beauty, even by other women, while men just aren't that beautiful, they're admired for "spiritual qualities" like courage, strength, and leadership. When you add an "instinctively repulsive" quality like homosexuality into the mix, there's no beauty left to admire:
... it is possible to hold up a lesbian couple which both men and women find attractive, or, at least, not repellent, whereas the reverse is not true. One cannot hold up a homosexual couple, not even Socrates and Alcibiades, which men will not find gross and unsightly.Dearie dearie me.
First of all, never bring up ancient Greeks when you're trying to argue that men don't admire male physical beauty, you look silly.
If you do, don't hold up Socrates and Alcibiades as the ideal male/male couple, even the Greeks thought they weren't well matched. That just makes it look like you've got your fingers in your ears, going LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, because people are going to bring up Achilles and Patroklus -- and then a passing Classics major (Sprog the Elder, in this case) will mention Harmodius and Aristogeiton, a male/male couple who were heroes of Athenian democracy and had famous statues put up in their honor.
As I've been following the Hugo Puppies discussion around, I've noticed a number of Puppies saying, "What about the dinosaur story! You SJWs nominated that dinosaur story!
Here's what I said about it, when I reviewed all the nominated short stories prior to voting last year:
[It] starts out playful, and with a style that echoes the classic children's story The Runaway Bunny. But as it goes on it becomes darker, bitter, until it becomes really a meta-story: it's sf/f because it's a story about how we use sf/f to help us deal with disappointing or terrible things in what is called "Real Life".What I didn't mention is that the culmination of the "terrible things" in that story is a queer-bashing. No wonder the Puppies hate it so much.