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July 31, 2009

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They're having such a hard time arranging all those deck chairs.

Yes, we're all shocked, shocked that Republicons are corrupt lackeys to corporate-monopolies...

And some of them are even unfaithful to their wifes ;-)
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Are the blue dogs the Prussians that decided that Napoleon was right after all and attacked Wellington from the rear?

I'm somewhat bemused by the notion that somebody says they can't get a bill for restructuring a sixth of the entire economy done in a week, and it would be regarded as an obvious pretext. I mean, sure, it could be a pretext, but the only reason somebody COULD get a bill done in that time frame is that they really didn't care if they got it right.

Since the bill is only the starting point for negotiations and amendments, and since the process has really been going on for 60 years, yeah, I think we can assume that a delay of a week *until the august recess* is a stalling tactic. There's really no reason to continue to play dumb, BB. You are like the kid at the magic show who, even after the magician has dropped the pretense and shown how the mirror box works, insists that the woman was *too* cut in half.

aimai

1) If they get it wrong, Brett Bellmore, they can fix it later. These things are not written in stone, you know.

2) This particular agglomeration of healthcare redo ideas has been worked on for months, at least, among staffers and subject area experts. Healthcare redo policy in general has been worked on, in and out of government, for years.

3) More time, at this point, does not equal a better bill. More time equals more opportunity for more constituencies to lobby their representatives to neuter more and more parts of the bill, resulting in a law that's too compromised to be effective.

"If they get it wrong, Brett Bellmore, they can fix it later."

Oh, that attitude really fills me with confidence. Confidence that if we get a bill through Congress we are royally screwed, that is.

More and more I'm convinced the proponents of this 'reform' are more concerned with breaking the current system, than putting together something better. On the theory that, once there's nothing left anyone would want to defend, they'll have a free hand in crafting something new, of course. But still, breaking the current system.

Actually, I am kind of surprised that it took so long for Brett or someone else to come up with that comment. The mere fact that Republican members of Congress have blatantly said that they want to delay and stall the process so that nothing will be passed is irrelevant to some people.

If I had any sense that any of the Republicans in Congress were actually doing anything in good faith, I could give acceptance to Bredtt's notion. There is, however, no evidence of that taking place, despite some of von's comments, and plenty of evidence that they don't know what the term "good faith" means.

Well, Brett, given that HR 3200 leaves most of the current system (group insurance available via employers) pretty much alone, redo proponents aren't doing such a swell job of breaking the current system.

That should provide you some relief.

Why the need to break something that's already broke Brett?

The mere fact that Republican members of Congress have blatantly said that they want to delay and stall the process so that nothing will be passed thus seriously damaging Obama is irrelevant to some people.

It's irrelevant to me, as much as it's irrelevant that a lot of Democrats want SOME form of health care 'reform' passed to bolster Obama.

Personally, I think he's doing a workman like job of damaging himself, doesn't need much help from Republicans. Good thing, too, as incompetent as they are.

You don't need the Republicans. Just saying...

Weirdly, I'm in the 78 percent of the country that wants the Democrats to fix health care so that *my* situation and that of my children is "bolstered." Obama's got nothing to do with it. We've wanted guaranteed health care since Truman and we weren't really planning on the role it would have in american politics all these years later.

aimai

Brett,

Do you think work on this just started?

I don't think that's accurate. It's been going on for a while, and of course there has been lots of discussion of possible reforms for some time, years even, so it really is silly to suggest that anyone is trying to restructure one sixth of the economy in one week.

That you guys allow yourselves to continue to be distracted by the comments of a concern-trolling anti-government libertarian is quite amusing. Keep in mind that the only bill that would be acceptable to Bellmore is no bill at all, then ask why it's at all worthwhile to engage him.

We're not engaging him. We're making fun of him. Because we're bored.

aimai

I think I'm pretty typical of many of us out here in real life. I work for Uncle Sam and have a first-rate health plan for my wife and me at a bargain price. My adult daughter works for a small business that still has a plan but has steadily cut back on the benefits in order to continue to be able to afford it. My adult son will soon lose his job and is on the verge of losing his insurance. He has no prospect of getting new insurance until he lands a new job. He's in good health, but so are we all -- until we aren't anymore.

So if you look only at the situation of my wife and me, everything's just fine. If you include my two children, things suck. Do I want improvements in the system? You betcha.

We need universal health care. How we get there is of enormous importance, but that's the goal, and we have to reach it. Anyone obstructing the goal deserves tarring and feathering. You bring the Republicans and some Blue Dogs; I'll supply the tar and feathers.

The Democrats should use this opportunity to remind the
American people, in very vivid terms that Republicans are heartless stooges for big corporations who are more interested in preserving the multi-million dollar paycheck of some fat, lazy CEO than ensuring a poor kid gets their annual physical check-up and vaccinations to lead a normal, healthy life.

Well, the Democrats could remind the American people that Republicans are heartless stooges for big corporations, but whose going to remind the American people that the American people are heartless stooges for big corporations, middle-sized corporations, and little corporations.

Corporations are people.

Government is the biggest corporate stooge.

People are soylent green.


Bob L.:

Does your son have a spare kidney he could sell to tide him over? He could take the proceeeds and purchase health insurance protection for the remaining kidney until that one leaves home as well and gets a job.

"Who is" ,.... not "whose".

I could use some grammer insurance, but I've been priced out of the market because of some preexisting mistakes.

I could use some grammer insurance

Some speling help, two:)

--TP

"I work for Uncle Sam and have a first-rate health plan for my wife and me at a bargain price. My adult daughter works for a small business that still has a plan but has steadily cut back on the benefits in order to continue to be able to afford it."

And the real hoot is, you probably don't understand that the former caused the latter.

Wait...did Thullen just say in roundabout fashion that corporations are Soylent Green?

And the real hoot is, you probably don't understand that the former caused the latter.

Yes, it is all the gubmint's fault that private health insurance companies have administrative overhead costs of up to 48 percent of their total revenues. Evil, evil gubmint!

"The Democrats should use this opportunity to remind the American people, in very vivid terms that Republicans are heartless stooges for big corporations who are more interested in preserving the multi-million dollar paycheck of some fat, lazy CEO than ensuring a poor kid gets their annual physical check-up and vaccinations to lead a normal, healthy life."

That's "most Republicans in Congress," not "all people who vote Republican." There's a considerable difference. It's not helpful to insult the non-27% of citizen Republican voters by tradition, or lack of study/knowledge, who are educatable.

It's not helpful to insult the non-27% of citizen Republican voters by tradition, or lack of study/knowledge, who are educatable.

Sorry, Gary, but if they're still in the GOP after the Clinton Wars, the Bush-Cheny Atrocity, and the current meltdown of the GOP into birthers and Rush dittoheads, "educatable" is the wrong word for them. The correct word is "fncking hopeless," and efforts to engage them in the process counterproductive.

What, exactly, are they still voting GOP for?

"What, exactly, are they still voting GOP for?"

Generally, lack of paying much attention, not paying attention to the right sources, and tradition.

Apologies, but how does this make them educable?

"Apologies, but how does this make them educable?

That would depend on the individual, but I've certainly noticeable distinct changes of views amongst certain longtime people who congregate on this blog, and used to be Republican, but now hold differing views on certain subjects than they used to. Almong them are Slartibartfast, OCSteve, and possibly to some degree even von and Sebastian, for instance. OCSteve specifically disclaimed being a member of the Republican Party any more, and if I'm not wrong, both of the other two I mention as examples said they voted for Obama. (I could be wrong.) For example.

I've seen a number of folks who don't read this blog change in recent years from calling themselves Republicans to changing their views on such issues as national health insurance, gay rights, and other issues, from what used to be Republican stances to Democratic ones. Maybe you've never seen it, but I have.

I've also seen Jim Henly move from calling himself a right libertarian to a left libertarian, and similar moves. example.

If I were an US citizen, I'd register as independent because of my strong liberal views. I'd register Dem only, if that was necessary in a critical primary. GOP would be out of question. A significant part of Dem offcie* holders are DINOs paid by a number of interests and holding in effect no non-negotiable views (=moral sell-outs). On the GOP side I see a mix of 'honest'** ideologues and paid opportunists. The party was quite successful in purging itself of principled moderates (who are now on record mostly as 'independent', I presume).

*I refer mainly to holders of seats in Congress or state equivalents here, although a lot of public officals also fit the description.
**not necessarily sane

Remembering the Gender wars of the Sixties and Seventies, I remember the phenomena of consciousness-raising and radicalization.

What Brett, Malkin, Limbaugh, Cantor, ad nauseam are doing is creating an environment in which large parts of Nixon's "Silent Majority" are being radicalized (ie, disillusioned, politically activated) by the transparent service that the "conservatives" are providing to their lords and masters at such very great cost to what is sneeringly called "The Public".

The Wall Street bailout - entirely at the hands, you'll recall of the Bush-Goldman-AIG cabal - has raised the national awareness of just how willing their "leaders" are to screw them out of everything in order to assure that the noble class in this country suffers not at all. Sensitized by such blatant indifference to ordinary people, ordinary people are catching on in droves to the reality that they are a commodity food-source, not really citizens any longer, but consumers who are themselves consumed in turn.

"Clever" remarks by Mr. Bellmore and his 'betters' fight this trend of awakening, but the ground they are losing is made plain in the erosion of their support among the voters. Nasty turns of phrase can only do so much in the face of a realization that 10% of the nation approves of 1% devouring 99%.

Brett makes himself - and his "positions" - ridiculous by ignoring a reality that no-one can stay blind to.

What, exactly, are they still voting GOP for?

To keep the icky gays and abortionists and other non-God*-fearing types at bay, of course.

* - That's "God" in evangelical Christian terms, mind you. Catholics and "other" non-Christians need not apply.

And low taxes! How could I forget low taxes?

I'm curious. What do Republicans think will happen if we do nothing and health care costs keep climbing towards Grain War levels, due to these bloated insurance middlemen? Or do the opposition members just figure they'll throw something together after winning the 2010 elections?

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