My Photo

« Remember to Remember to Vote on the Vote | Main | Compare And Contrast »

July 15, 2008

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d834515c2369e200e553bb960b8834

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Speeches And Strategy:

Comments

But I was responding specifically to the CiC aspect of the job. I think that a couple of decades on the Armed Services Committee is very good experience for that, with or without personal military experience.

Yeah, but why? What specifically about the ASC is good experience for being President?

Here's the nut of my argument. The ASC does lots of things. But it is also an opaque institution to some extent. That means that some people on the ASC do lots of work and some people do nothing. To be bipartisan, I'd presumptively label those groups as "staffers" and "Senators" respectively. But even for Senators that do lots of work, I still haven't seen any explanation of what work they do on the ASC and why that prepares them for the Presidency. And I still haven't seen an explanation for how we know that McCain actually does useful work on the ASC as opposed to just delegating everything to subordinates. I mean, getting into the nuts of procurement policy just doesn't seem very useful for a President. The Senate hasn't exactly distinguished itself in terms of oversight these last few years.

I can imagine some particular Senate careers being good training for the Presidency, but it all hinges on the details and not a blanket statement that 20 years in the Senate is good experience for being President.

Turn it around though. A young charismatic Republican with experience as a community organizer, some time in the state legislature, and three years as a Senator (much of which was spent running for president) is running against Ted Kennedy. Republicans are claiming that Kennedy’s experience in Congress doesn’t really count as any kind of experience to be president…

I'd be very wary of making the experience argument. If I did make it, I'd phrase it in terms of what Kennedy had actually accomplished in the Senate and what those accomplishments told us about his character. But if Kennedy had been a mediocre Senator who never accomplished anything I was proud of, I wouldn't be saying anything about experience.

Normally I’d say you are correct. OTOH there was a war on and McCain did volunteer for combat. I haven’t read the survey reports on the first three incidents so I have no opinion on whether they may have been due to pilot error or not. Still, he survived the Forrestal, got the shrapnel removed from his chest and legs, and immediately volunteered for duty on the USS Oriskany, resulting in the mission from which he did not return for 6 years.

You have a good point, but I'm wary of giving a young John McCain (or indeed, a young George Bush) too much credit for bravery. You and I are at the point in our lives and have the intellectual ability to assess risks like adults; I don't think these two guys were when they were flying. Heck, if you offered me the chance to fly fighter jets when I was 22 with the caveat that I'd get shot at, I would've jumped at the chance. But doing so wouldn't have made me (personally) brave: it would've made me a stupid 22 year old who thought he was invincible and wanted to do this incredibly cool thing. And while I'm sure Bush and McCain knew pilots who didn't come back, I'm not sure they've ever understood statistics to the point where they could reason enough about their own risk to be scared. After all, I'm sure that they had good reason to explain the failures of every single pilot they knew who didn't come back; no doubt none of those reasons implicated their own skills or safety.

Both Bush and McCain were drinking a lot during their flying years; Bush at least was also driving. To me, that suggests a failure to comprehend and deal with risk properly. That's not the sort of behavior one engages in when one believes that they are mortal and still has a functioning brain.

Also, the other thing with McCain is that he didn't exactly have tons of options. He had to make a career in the military in order to ensure the approval of his family. And lets face it: he was not terribly bright, so the odds of getting command of anything larger than an aircraft during wartime were really small.

Finally, the real problem with using family connections in this case is that as a pilot, McCain was responsible for the safety of other people. If he passed over more qualified people to get into those cockpits, then that means other people's lives were in more danger than they would have been. Personal heroism is great and all, but if the only way you can be heroic is by recklessly and needlessly endangering the lives of other people in order to feed your ego, then you're a dick. You might be a hero, but lots of heroes are also dicks.

Some heroism really can disqualify you from further service. If I set my neighbors house on fire, waited for the flames to get going, and then burst in and rescued her, I'd be a hero, but I'd also be an arsonist and I'd deserve both a medal and a very long prison sentence.

At least one feminist blog tracked down the background of a bunch of sockpuppets claiming to be Clinton supporters who were going to vote McCain in protest, and discovered that they were all in fact posting from an IP address that belonged to a conservative website.

It might be good if you gave us a link if you had it on hand. It seems that people who do that would automatically be violating the posting rules.

Turb: Yeah, but why? What specifically about the ASC is good experience for being President?

I was going to gather some detail on that but the official website of the Senate Armed Services Committee appears to be down. Given that they can’t keep an official government website online I’m thinking of retracting. ;)

From wiki:
The Committee on Armed Services is a committee of the United States Senate empowered with legislative oversight of the nation's military, including the Department of Defense, military research and development, nuclear energy (as pertaining to national security), benefits for members of the military, the Selective Service System and other matters related to defense policy.

Sub-committees:
Airland
Emerging Threats and Capabilities
Personnel
Readiness and Management Support
Seapower
Strategic Forces

With 20+ years on the committee and as the current ranking member – you’d have to soak up a fair amount of information just via osmosis. But at a minimum it positions you to have more familiarity with various threats and our capabilities to meet those threats. IMO that puts you in a better place to assume CiC responsibility than someone lacking that same inside track.


But if Kennedy had been a mediocre Senator who never accomplished anything I was proud of, I wouldn't be saying anything about experience.

Given that “McCain-Feingold” is the only legislation I can think of with his name on it I guess I’ll reconsider the point. ;)


On the rest of your comment, fair points all. But I already conceded that military service doesn’t necessarily equate to good experience for the presidency. This was just an offshoot of the “5 planes” bit.

It might be good if you gave us a link if you had it on hand.

Think she's talking about this item.

With 20+ years on the committee and as the current ranking member – you’d have to soak up a fair amount of information just via osmosis.

Point taken. But no matter how long we shared an office, my officemate couldn't really do my job. In my experience, people learn by doing and by struggling...osmosis doesn't sound like much of a struggle, unless you mean the struggle of concentration gradients ;-)

But at a minimum it positions you to have more familiarity with various threats and our capabilities to meet those threats. IMO that puts you in a better place to assume CiC responsibility than someone lacking that same inside track.

True enough, but this is the bit that worries me. The DOD deals with a subset of threats and has institutional prerogatives that favor certain types of responses over others. How much work did the ASC do on Al Queda before 9/11? Or was it not on their radar at all? I mean, Richard Clarke and the CIA were freaking out, but I suspect those issues were never raised before the ASC. Work that civilian agencies did tracking and then drying up terrorist financing was more effective at making Bin Ladin's life difficult than half our army in Afghanistan. Likewise, I'm sure the ASC spends a fair bit of time dealing with incredibly useless projects that have nothing to do with American security but that require lots of time because of the money involved: the Zumwalt destroyer, increased production of F-22s, and missile defense don't match up with the threats we face at all. So decades of ASC service does worry me: it might give people lots of insight into programs that do nothing for our security (while convincing them otherwise) and it definitely ignores very real threats that DOD lacks the ability or interest in addressing.

Maybe during the Cold War ASC time made more sense, but the Cold War is over, even if our defense budget hasn't yet heard...

I'll happily concede your point though that in terms of optics, a long Senate career, especially one with time on the ASC, looks super impressive. I have no idea how Obama can best combat that vision.

Maybe during the Cold War ASC time made more sense, but the Cold War is over, even if our defense budget hasn't yet heard...

True enough. So maybe that is Obama’s counter. McCain has decades of the wrong type of experience. ;)

Mr. Tomorrow has the Bill and Ken number.

I'm still interested in any pointers about McCain's squandron command days that you think relevant.

Why on earth would you think that I thought it was relevant to anything at all [...]?

Because of this exchange:
That's the extent of his military experience.

Gary: Really? No credit for anything he did after the war? I don't necessarily think any of that gives him extra-special qualification for the Oval Office, but generally, squadron command doesn't get omitted from one's resume.

"It's a maximum of eight years, after all, and I think that some experience in life outside of politics could possibly be useful."

"Government" and "politics" overlap, but are not synonmyous. The Secretary of State is not supposed to primarily be a politician, for instance.

From the Making Light link:

Republicans have failed miserably this decade to keep up with critical technological advances

They have kept up with voting technology. They can use it to twist votes like no-one else.

"They said we couldn't leave when violence was up, they say we can't leave when violence is down."

They'll leave when the oil leases are apportioned.

In the 1950s, in the wake of Eisenhower’s “Atoms for Peace” plan, Pakistan obtained a 125 megawatt heavy-water reactor from Canada. After India’s first atomic test in May 1974, Pakistan immediately sought to catch up by attempting to purchase a reprocessing plant from France. After France declined due to U.S. resistance, Pakistan began to assemble a uranium enrichment plant via materials from the black market and technology smuggled through A.Q. Khan. In 1976 and 1977, two amendments to the Foreign Assistance Act were passed, prohibiting American aid to countries pursuing either reprocessing or enrichment capabilities for nuclear weapons programs.

These two, the Symington and Glenn Amendments, were passed in response to Pakistan’s efforts to achieve nuclear weapons capability; but to little avail. Washington’s cool relations with Islamabad soon improved. During the Reagan administration, the US turned a blind eye to Pakistan’s nuclear weapon’s program. In return for Pakistan’s cooperation and assistance in the mujahideen’s war against Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, the Reagan administration awarded Pakistan with the third largest economic and military aid package after Israel and Egypt. Despite the Pressler Amendment, which made US aid contingent upon the Reagan administration’s annual confirmation that Pakistan was not pursuing nuclear weapons capability, Reagan’s “laissez-faire” approach to Pakistan’s nuclear program seriously aided the proliferation issues that we face today.

Not only did Pakistan continue to develop its own nuclear weapons program, but A.Q. Khan was instrumental in proliferating nuclear technology to other countries as well. Further, Pakistan’s progress toward nuclear capability led to India’s return to its own pursuit of nuclear weapons, an endeavor it had given up after its initial test in 1974. In 1998, both countries had tested nuclear weapons. A uranium-based nuclear device in Pakistan; and a plutonium-based device in India
Over the years of America's on again off again support of Pakistan, Musharraf continues to be skeptical of his American allies. In 2002 he is reported to have told a British official that his “great concern is that one day the United States is going to desert me. They always desert their friends.” Musharraf was referring to Viet Nam, Lebanon, Somalia ... etc., etc., etc.,

Taking the war to Pakistan is perhaps the most foolish thing America can do. Obama is not the first to suggest it, and we already have sufficient evidence of the potentially negative repercussions of such an action. On January 13, 2006, the United States launched a missile strike on the village of Damadola, Pakistan. Rather than kill the targeted Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda’s deputy leader, the strike instead slaughtered 17 locals. This only served to further weaken the Musharraf government and further destabilize the entire area. In a nuclear state like Pakistan, this was not only unfortunate, it was outright stupid. Pakistan has 160 million Arabs (better than half of the population of the entire Arab world). Pakistan also has the support of China and a nuclear arsenal.

I predict that America’s military action in the Middle East will enter the canons of history alongside Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Holocaust, in kind if not in degree. The Bush administration’s war on terror marks the age in which America has again crossed a line that many argue should never be crossed. Call it preemption, preventive war, the war on terror, or whatever you like; there is a sense that we have again unleashed a force that, like a boom-a-rang, at some point has to come back to us. The Bush administration argues that American military intervention in the Middle East is purely in self-defense. Others argue that it is pure aggression. The consensus is equally as torn over its impact on international terrorism. Is America truly deterring future terrorists with its actions? Or is it, in fact, aiding the recruitment of more terrorists?

The last thing the United States should do at this point and time is to violate yet another state’s sovereignty. Beyond being wrong, it just isn't very smart. We all agree that slavering in this country was wrong; as was the decimation of the Native American populations. We all agree that the Holocaust and several other other acts of genocide in the twentieth century were wrong. So when will we finally admit that American military intervention in the Middle East is also wrong?

The comments to this entry are closed.

Whatnot


  • visitors since 3/2/2004

March 2015

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31        
Blog powered by Typepad

QuantCast