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March 14, 2008

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Understood Steve. Thanks.

*tosses OCSteve imaginary life raft, and also some bottled water, sunscreen, a change of clothes, and nice home-made cookies. Thinks: floating no fun at all.*

*Gratefully catches it all, climbs in raft, applies sunscreen, changes clothes, drinks half the water, and then sets out to try to fish for a cow using home-made cookies. (Hoping the cow comes with a hibachi, cutlery, and a baked potato.)*
;)

Jay:

"Which half of the chicken has come home to roost, his black half or his white half?"

That's a pretty good question.

Tell me first which half of the chicken you think robbed the house near Sunset and which half you think robbed the house near Vine, and I'll tell you which half of the chicken was minding his own business at the time but is under suspicion for robbing both houses.

Obama's white half didn't seem to mind his black half nodding his head in Church at Wright's sermons. Both of your white halves (though it would be hilarious if you turned out to have two black halves; now THAT would be the threadjack of all time) seem to have a problem with it, not that both of my white halves don't have a question or two.

What I really love about America (OCSteve, I see the promised land! ;)) is that a white man, Bill Clinton, gets to be the first black President of the United States, but if Obama, the black man (I did a poll of taxi drivers in D.C. with the help of Thomas Sowell; 92% of taxi drivers (even half white/half black drivers) would not pick up the white half of Obama because it is connected to his black half, which is why Thomas Sowell dresses as a plate of sweet and sour chicken when he's hailing cabs), wins the Presidency, he'll only be the
second black man to hold the office and the 44th white man to hold the office.

Jay, like felix culpa, but even more so, I know I'm going to be disappointed by Obama.
What else is new?

But I'm hoping with the inevitable bad news comes a fully rejoined chicken with a wishbone in the FDR pot.

If Clinton wins the primaries, with help from her husband, Aretha Clinton, I'll vote for her even though I'm pretty much already disappointed with her previous chicken recipes, which are known quantities and a little bland for my taste.

Both are better than any Republican turkey coughed up so far and George W. Bush and the Republican Party have so been so foully corrupt and such a colossal bunch of bird droppings on the shoulders of the American people that I'd be a dodo not to want them to spend a good long time in the wilderness without a chickenless pot to pee in.

Hold the squawking, Ugh. I know I don't deserve a feather in my cap when I'm such a quack in the pun game.

*would toss imaginary cow, but fears that flying cow might swamp life raft, and cause all sorts of havoc...*

I was appalled to learn that Jeremiah Wright bases his church's views on "Liberation Theology" which developed in Latin America, particularly in Nicaragua in the 1970's and 1980's (refer to his interview on Fox News March 1, 2007). Liberation Theology was practiced by Catholic priests in Latin America and was one of the primary causes for the various guerrilla movements and civil wars that tore Central America apart in the 1980's. This theology promotes among other things hatred amongst social classes, much like the hatred Mr. Wright seems to be promoting among races in the United States.

If he has been Senator Obama's pastor and "spiritual leader" for 20 years, it is beyond me not to make a connection that Senator Obama must share some of these views which, as Mr. Wright states are a basic foundation for his church.

Latin voters should pay close attention to this. These hatred policies such as Liberation Theology have ripped apart Latin America for decades and are one of the main causes for the influx of Central America immigrants to the U.S., escaping the damage caused at home. This should not happen to the United States.

Let's stop Obama now! This is too serious a matter to ignore and take a risk on.

Jesus Thullen… How do you do that time after time? I feel like I’m not worthy to even read your stuff much less dare to post a comment on the same thread.

But please keep doing it anyway. The coffee I just spit into my keyboard joins a few other mouthfuls. At this point when I get a new one I just tell the sales guy that my last one got “thullened”.

Latino Voter: Your wilful misrepresentation of liberation theology and its role in Latin American politics is appalling, ridiculous and politically motivated. And no, calling yourself a "latino voter" does not make your comment any more legitimate and thus not subject to question. Folks who want to know about liberation theology need to go do their own homework and come to their own conclusions.

Latino voter, could you provide some links for your assertion that Liberation Theology was the cause for civil war as opposed to oppressive policies by the regimes themselves?

And what precisely is the difference between Liberation theology and what was practiced with respect to Poland and John Paul concerning the Soviet Union?

Read several Jay Jerome comments.

Get up walk away from computer.

Come back ready to scream the facts to him so he gets off his hate wagon.

Realize it will do no good.

Give up.

Decide to say to OCSteve, who does listen and well, that I agree that "hope is not a plan." But also that the plans that Obama does have will get nowhere if there isn't some degree of hope behind them.

My problems are with those who say that Obama is just rhetoric without substance and talks about hope but hope alone gets you nowhere. That isn't what he is about.

OTOH, you have Clinton supporters ytalkign about her substance, such as in healthcare where she supposedly has mandates. Of course, her plan does not have mandates in reality, so it is just rhetoric.

Or her portrayals of foreign policy experience, which may in actuality amount to 10% of what she claims it to be, therfore it is mostly rhetoric without substance.

Or her plans to freeze mortgage interest rates to help people, which is totally unconstitutional and therefore goes beyond just rhetoric to rhetoric that can actually hurt people.

McCain is another rhetoric without substance type of person, except his rhetorical skills are so bad, it doesn't matter anyway.

John: I agree that "hope is not a plan." But also that the plans that Obama does have will get nowhere if there isn't some degree of hope behind them.

Awesome line John. Seriously. It made me stop short, and now I have to reconsider some things. Obama could do a lot worse than using that line verbatim.

Hold the squawking, Ugh. I know I don't deserve a feather in my cap when I'm such a quack in the pun game.

Actually, that comment was so good I'll forgive you.

G. Farber: the Obamas and Clintons should be equally fully forthcoming. I'll be happy with the results of that."

I agree 100% with that, Gary.

"When the Clintons release their financial information, tax returns, library donor info, and make themselves available for as many hours with the Chicago Trib reporting staff and editorial board, that is."

So, if the police track down a thief who robbed a house near Sunset Blvd. they shouldn't charge him with the crime until they catch another thief who robbed a house near Vine Street?

Jay, the Obamas have released their tax returns and financial information, and Obama just sat for hours with the Chicago Trib.

But you know that. You have no interest in applying the same standards to the Clintons that you do to Obama, or anyone connected to him, and we've long established that.

OCSteve: "but the “hope is not a plan” business is getting to me."

Reread the Cass Sunstein piece, and reread Hilzoy's posts on Obama's substance. I don't see any basis in Obama's hugely substantive approach for falling for such propaganda that he lacks substance, other than that you still seem extremely prone to believing implausible and baseless accusations from rightwing sources, and I really won't be at all surprised if you find out before November that Obama really just does have shockingly disappointing qualities after all, and that you'll just have to vote for McCain.

I'm not expecting that, mind. But I'm not going to fall over dead of shock if it happens, given your propensity for seeming to buy into so many of these claims, although certainly you don't go for any of the truly outlandish ones.

Thanks for the nice words about my few remarks about our Democratic process here. You have no idea how many times I heard endless numbers of people, yesterday, saying to others variants of "I'm not a member of an organized political party, I'm a Democrat," and agreeing that we have an ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory that can never be underestimated, and generally bitching and eyerolling.

One fellow I let vent to me for half an hour about how dumb caucuses were, and why couldn't we just elect national delegates proportionally, and skip all this, and it was all so badly organized, and so forth, and at the end, he shook my hand, and said I'd made coming worthwhile, as I'd given him all these good reasons why caucuses were good ideas after all, and why Democratic ones worked differently than Republican ones, and the like. So that was nice. I had a number of encounters like that, which were nice.

It was easy to avoid the few annoying people, mostly, because there were very few.

Except for this one really loud woman, who complained about everything, and knew my new pal, Gillian, who gave me a ride home, and thus I got to hear all of it.

But she left a trail of pissed off people behind her, complaining about everything, and how they should have done it all her way.

She also had a lot of loud opinions about lots of other stuff, mostly fairly ill-informed. (Like, how her independent group didn't have to report contributions unless they made a profit, which ain't the way the FEC or IRS see it, if you cross their attention.)

I gently suggested 3 times that profit had nothing whatever to do with it, but she wasn't in any kind of "listening" mode, as I believe it's known.

So I gave up, and just nodded a lot.

More later.

OCSteve, thanks a lot. I am not usually created with "awesome lines." But the sense remains true.

"I was appalled to learn that Jeremiah Wright bases his church's views on 'Liberation Theology' which developed in Latin America, particularly in Nicaragua in the 1970's and 1980's..."

This is completely off the mark. Many of Wright's statements and views are based on Black (Liberation) Theology, which stems from the writings of W.E.B. Dubois and other PanAfricanists active during the early and middle parts of the last century.

Liberation Theology is a Catholic spin-off, which has nothing to do with Wright's Protestant denomination.

I assume you're a troll who is busy peddling this misconception on numerous blogs, which is very sad.

Why do I suspect that "Latino" in this instance = "Cuban"?

Some of you writers remind me of the idiots in Germany in 1933 when they excused Hitler of associating with madmen. Hitler simply didn't know how crazy they are they said. Hitler will unify Germany, they said. The same thing you are saying about Obama. He didn't know his personal friend, advisor and pastor for 20 years hated America, hate white Americans and was happy to see white people suffer and die on 9/11. By the way, before Hitler gained power he too distanced himself from Julius Streicher who wanted to kill every Jew everwhere. Hitler said the same as Obama."His views are not mine." It's amazing to me how moronic Americans have become. You people deserve Hussein Obama.

You forgot something Mae. You should have added that there is no substantial difference between "The Audacity of Hope" and "Mein Kampf" since both are about the up-hill struggle of people not naturally destined* to be world leaders.**

*as seen by the majority
**in case that anyone did not get it: This is sarcasm/snark and a violation of the golden rule of DNFTT.

Hitler will unify Germany, they said.

he was a uniter, not a divider.

    I see no greater unifying message than that of freedom, peace, and prosperity, and that is what this campaign is all about.

oh, wait, that was Ron Paul.

the triumph of dope over expedience?

whoops, I meant hope over experience.

oh what a tangled web we weave

if first we rationalize, then believe

Hitler said the same as Obama.

Yep: just like Hitler.

Except for the insanity, and the master-race bit, and the it's-the-fault-of-the-Joos routine. Oh, and the toothbrush moustache, and the stint in prison, and the skin tone. Other than those trivial differences, just like Hitler. I mean, he even has the same number of chromosome pairs as Hitler. I figure we should bring him up on genocide charges right now, before it's too late.

For the benefit of those of us who follow US politics from afar, can somebody (preferably the author) clarify what the “mae collins” comment is intended to convey?

Does the choice of name refer to Addie Mae Collins and, if so, is it just a joke in poor taste, or is there a serious point being made – or both, a tasteless joke to make a serious point?

Gary: I don't see any basis in Obama's hugely substantive approach for falling for such propaganda that he lacks substance, other than that you still seem extremely prone to believing implausible and baseless accusations from rightwing sources…

Most of the propaganda I hear these days is coming from the Clinton campaign. I’m sure she would appreciate the irony of being labeled a rightwing source. ;)

… and I really won't be at all surprised if you find out before November that Obama really just does have shockingly disappointing qualities after all, and that you'll just have to vote for McCain.

Gary, my choices are voting for O or sitting it out. There is literally nothing that could get me to vote for McCain.

The vernal equinox is fast approaching, so if this thread keeps going it will soon be ... Springtime for Hitler!

Try not to mention the war.

I believe that in the responses to this post you have a statement of the casism that still exists in the country over how we look at race, what we each see as "radical speech"...what is pro or anti american. Sen. Barrack Obama is an intelligent, good human being, certainlly qualified for the presidency. Whether he is the most qualified or not is for the American people to decide. But as americans we will not be able to make real progress on the issues at hand until we all are able to honestly assess what is true, what is racist, what is right, etc..sometimes it seems that 6 of us can be looking at a event and come up with 6 different ways to explain what happened. and please, please , lets stop this idea that only Mr. Obama is getting grilled on these issues...There have been several other people that have been scruitized over there religous beliefs...and not being real about does not make that not a fact..

Sen. Barrack Obama is an intelligent, good human being, certainlly qualified for the presidency. Whether he is the most qualified or not is for the American people to decide. But as americans we will not be able to make real progress on the issues at hand until we all are able to honestly assess what is true, what is racist, what is right, etc..sometimes it seems that 6 of us can be looking at a event and come up with 6 different ways to explain what happened. and please, please , lets stop this idea that only Mr. Obama is getting grilled on these issues...

Or getting slapped with racist/sexist charges.

It's another form of the Oppression Olympics, which i have a distaste for. Measuring who got more oppressed than who deflects attention from trying to undo that oppression (at least in my experience).

So anyway, the "God Damn America" stance might appeal to people like Michelle Obama who gets paid $313,000 as a PR person

A black woman whio rises from middle class America is supposed to say "Thank you, massa!" How dare she be so uppity!

===========

What I really love about America ... is that a white man, Bill Clinton, gets to be the first black President of the United States, but if Obama, the black man ... wins the Presidency, he'll only be the
second black man to hold the office and the 44th white man to hold the office.

Dick Gregory did a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAcN5iKArQU>great riff on this. We already had a "black president"! What do blacks have to be angry about? (It's the white's "turn" agian, isn't it?)

What's amazing is how white Americans defend blacks who despise and hate them. Obama's wife was given every opportunity that's possibe to give anyone of any race. And it's still "God damn America." No love or respect for the country that made her success possible. Instead, you get the stupid response of a white who justifies her hate and sarcastically says, she should say, "Thank you Massa." Get real people and judge people by their actions and words and not their race. When people are God damning you and your country, listen to what they are saying and stop rationalizing hatred.

No Mae, I'd rather look for common areas of agreement. When a pastor says that the US has been guilty of supporting terror and should be condemned for this, I say "Amen, brother".

What's amazing is how white Americans defend blacks who despise and hate them.

Actually, that's not true.

They may hate and despise YOU...but no one person represents their entire ethnic group (ego inflating as it may be).

Or you get the stupid response of a white who whines, "Amen, brother."

Or you get the stupid response of a white who whines, "Amen, brother."

Snap!

Well played, mae. Although I doubt Donald was whining.

Look, black people are pissed off and frustrated about a lot of things. They have good cause to be.

It's all good to say that race shouldn't come into it, but race does come into it. Black people aren't treated the same as white people. They put up with a lot of crap that white people don't.

If you want to judge by actions, White's ministry in Chicago appears to have a long and solid reputation for constructive action in that city. So, there's that.

I, personally, think White's comments as excerpted in the videos we've all seen were ill considered and unhelpful. Perhaps self indulgent, given his office. We all get pissed off, but folks with public positions shouldn't really use their office to vent.

Also, I'd say he was skirting dangerously close to endorsing a candidate, which I believe is against the law. Haven't seen that mentioned here.

All in all, not a wise moment for Rev. White.

But factually they seemed pretty much right on. At least, arguable.

People get pissed and spout off when they shouldn't. Happens every day. But it's hard for me to see the overall ministry and work of White and see a hater.

As always, YMMV.

Thanks -

Spare me the "Oh the oppressed black" crap. Since the early sixties the blacks have been offered every conceivable opportunity no other ethnic group (Asians, Hispanics) have. Still there's nothing but hate rhetoric from black leaders like Obama's personal friend and advisor. It's time blacks listen to responsible blacks like Bill Cosby who is a real American and is begging for blacks to go out and take responsibility for their lives. I'm sick of listening to the Al Sharptons and Rev. Wrights of the world crazily blaming white people for all the ills in the universe. The insanity of it all boggles my mind. Please no more of that "you don't understand the crap they put with" bull. Never yet heard an Asian or Korean spout that nonsense. In fact, I've never heard any immigrant say "God Damn America." The Mexicans, Koreans and Asians I know all say "God Bless America for this opportunity." I have no time or good will for people like Obama's advisor and friend who "God damns me and all Americans." To me, it's incredible that people like you support them.

...because they're just like Hitler.

Gosh: why on earth aren't African-Americans like all other immigrants?

I can't think of a single reason why...

Except, of course, for the not being immigrants part.

I mean, it's almost as though America hadn't welcomed them with open arms after they bravely decided to come here in search of a better life than they could find back home on the Gold Coast.

Sheesh.

Spare me the "Oh the oppressed black" crap.

Sorry, no can do. Not when stupid people insist on treating blacks differently than whites. And other stupid people insist that it doesn't happen.

And it really isn't incredible that some people who happen to be white understands this.

You're going to be hearing it again, and again and again because it happens to be occurring right here, right now. And plugging your ears and singing "la, la, la" isn't going to change it.

Hm. Seem to recall hearing the same sort of words aimed at "Negro sympathizers" in the 60s and 70s.

Never yet heard an Asian or Korean spout that nonsense.

By the way. Get to know more people. You're shockingly ill-informed.

"Gary, my choices are voting for O or sitting it out. There is literally nothing that could get me to vote for McCain."

Okay, then my fear is that you'll disappoint me by finding plausible reasons to be too worried about Obama to vote for him.

I don't really think you will. I think you have a ton of sense when you think about things for a bit.

And I know well about only figuring things out after a day or two or three or more.

But good to know about you and McCain. :-)

(Me, I wish the guy an extremely happy retirement, maybe with lots of visits with the Doles, or even happiness in a continued Senate career, where he can continue to annoy more conservative Republicans. :-))

Never yet heard an Asian or Korean spout that nonsense.

An Asian or Korean?

In defense of OCSteve I'd like to say that the mere fact that there is an Osama hype makes me suspicious too, since my default setting is to distrust anything that is hyped. My alarm bells tend to ring also when someone is touted as a "moderate" (admittedly that mainly happens with GOP nominees for sensitive positions). I'd would at least see it as a reason to doubly check the background and stated intentions (and look for discrepancies).
All other candidates at the moment doing everything posssible to make themselves unelectable might help (Clinton going dirty and the Son of Cain going Hagee would be sufficient). I am not a US citizen (or resident), so I can just hope for a good or at least tolerable outcome. An Edwards/Obama ticket would have appealed to me (with an Obama/n.n. ticket as a future option) because it could have served as a testbed for the "untested" O.

Mae, I'm just devastated by your cogent reply. You forgot to refute what I said, but I'm sure that was an oversight.

I used to know people like this growing up, the defensive sorts who were constantly on the lookout for reasons why anyone who said anything about white racism against blacks was actually a racist or hypocrite.

HArtmut, please tell me that the last word, first line was an unintentional typo.

DJ, you are really being much too curteous to mae.

She is unread, does not want to check things out, and merely repeats hateful things she ahs heard elsewhere.

And it is obvious she really has no desire to learn the truth of things. She is best ignored.

ok.. so who whacked the troll's nest?

As followers of Jesus Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit, true Christians say and pray “God Bless America,” and many are now saying and praying “God Please Help the US.”

However, the Holy Spirit of God would never inspire a true follower of Jesus Christ to say or pray “God Damn American” in any context, much less as part of a taped public sermon in front of children.

Holy Scriptures say to test the spirits (1 John 4:1). Reverend Wright obviously has a fiery spirit that is condemning at times, particuarly when he curses our nation in public sermons. It is certaintly not Christ-like or characteristic of the Holy Spirit.

Sentor Obama apparently does not say or pray “God Damn America,” but the crutial point is that most of his life has trusted and tollerated this particular pastor. Although Reverend Wright is retiring, he will remain as Senior Pastor, and his replacement essentially agrees with him in spirit and truth, and Senator Obama must agree with him in spirit.

There is reason to not trust the spirit in which Reverend Wright said the things he said, and so there is reason to question the spirit leading the youthfull Senator Obama as a professed Christian and prospective president of our nation. May God’s Holy Spirit be our guide.

Hope Page: https://itsallaboutjesusnotme.blogspot.com

So tempting, but IWNFTT

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