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February 08, 2007

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Anybody unaware of the staggering laziness, servile cheerleading, and prideful know-nothingism of the Doughy Pantload has never read more than one paragraph of his, and for that I envy them.

The decent thing to do would be to admit that his judgment about such things is dreadful, and that whoever gave him a platform to write about them made a terrible mistake.

that would mean caving to pressure from the illiberal left, which wants nothing more than to keep conservatives from ever speaking out again. if Goldberg goes down over this, conservatives will never be allowed to speculate again. so they must dig in their heels and fight this to the death. don't Cut, Or, Run. Stay The Course. don't show weakness.

/snark

It does beg the question, Does anyone actually like Jonah Goldberg's writing? On any subject?

I do. I suspect that I'm not alone (although I may be here at ObWi).

He should then find some other line of work, where he might yet, in some way, prove useful to mankind.

OK, so like we'll have to move to Utah or something, but that's just too fabulous not to ask: Hilzoy, will you marry me?

Naturally, Goldberg thinks its all about the bet, and since Cole turned him down, then none of its matters.

And that the offer of the bet was just a silly fit of pique -- as opposed to his analysis. Was that also just some silly fit of pique? Somehow Goldberg manages to avoid talking about his prediction -- anything to avoid the simple truth that Cole had it right and Goldberg was dead wrong.

Goldberg writes a regular op-ed for the LA Times, and its odious that such a hack is given that platform. He'll remain second rate because he has not learned the fine art of plausible deniability in making pundit predictions. Friedman has mastered it -- this will happen and is a good idea if Bush does this or that. Drivel so laden with qualification (which he knows will not happen) that it is meaningless, but the act is saying with it true feeling, with a compliant interviewer nodding serious agreement.

I've gotten to the point where I almost can't stand to read my own writing, anymore.

Which probably explains a few things, come to think of it.

hilzoy's really the only voice of sanity, anymore, and even she's not averse to reading and even occasionally linking to Atrios or Sadly, No!, which kind of puts a dent in that whole last-bastion-of-sanity image, every time I think of it. So I try not to.

Edward: I have this firm intention of dancing at your wedding, but the whole point is that you should be marrying Bambino, or failing that, a guy. And our marriage would sort of interfere with that. Although, as you say, Utah has possibilities. (Nice scenery, too.)

More seriously: we miss you!

yeah! And email me next time you're in Chicago eddie.

"And our marriage would sort of interfere with that."

Gosh, sometimes liberals are sooo close-minded! ;)

Hey, Hilzoy, I'm glad you included the last line in the past regarding Goldberg's usefulness. With all due respect to Andrew, I do think the line is a little wordy. "Shut up. Jonah," would have been more to the point, not to mention highly ethical.

Goldberg's paragraph proposing the bet just about reaches the level of a guy slouching over a bar brandishing his testosterone gland at an overheard conversation at a nearby table, doc. It displays all of the pathetic machismo (what they call, in cage fighting, "superior judgement") of so many of the lower forms of what is mistaken for conservative blogging and writing, pal. He's not even a natty dresser with foppish hair like Cliff May, bub.

Their idea of journalism is hunting down lipstick samples on the loins of former Presidents. Their idea of war is not unlike the Al Aqsa Brigade's idea of war: make sure the fuse between them and the bomb is as long as possible so the truly guilty don't get hurt.

As to Cole's favorite charity, whatever leads to both Jonah and his truly ghastly mother shutting up forever (rolled up socks inserted into their gobs, packing their mouths with salt, copious amounts of duck tape permanently applied) is deserving of a line item payroll deduction on the United Way charity list.

I wish I could find a way to take pleasure in the boot to the crotch the war pimps have received from reality. I can't - too many have died, too many are injured. The icing on the cake is the backpedalling and revisionism. The new consensus reality is that everyone thought there were WMD, despite the fact that the majority of informed opinion said that either there were no WMD or that the evidence was unclear.

Thullen for Hillary's blogmaestro!

Living in such a wealthy society, where "traditionalists" and "small government" types act as if war is a game.

God bless America!

Aw, go easy on Goldberg. He's just happy that he didn't have to hit his mom up for the thousand clams.

The decent thing to do would be to admit that his judgment about such things is dreadful, and that whoever gave him a platform to write about them made a terrible mistake.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, Hil, the setup was a bit long, but what a punchline...

on my absence from the list of lawyers, what am i, chopped liver? hmph.

some of his writing pre-war over at NRO was quirky and occasionally amusing. since the war's gone bad he seems both dull and desperate. which is an odd combination.

Thullen: duct tape - useless for taping ducts due to its inability to deal with thermal expansion. otherwise, like the Force -- has a light side, a dark side and holds the universe together.

duck tape -- what you need to get a proper sear on your maigrets de canard when cooking on a sailboat?

It does beg the question, Does anyone actually like Jonah Goldberg's writing? On any subject?

I'm more than a little embarrassed to admit this, but I must profess something resembling the occasional slight fondness for Goldberg's turn of phrase. This generally involves the Herculean chore of totally ignoring the substance of said phrase, and rarely happens anyway because I generally don't want to subject myself to this substance.

Someone (can't remember who) one remarked that it was a true and tragic loss to society when Goldberg decided to write on serious issues, rather than, say, pop culture commentary. I personally justify my (rare almost to the point of non-existence) small pleasure at reading Goldberg in these terms...

duck tape -- what you need to get a proper sear on your maigrets de canard when cooking on a sailboat?

Well, in fairness to Thullen, there is a brand of duct tape called Duck Tape...

Technically, Goldberg is a perfectly competent writer. He can also be amusing from time to time.

The question of how often one agrees with him is an entirely different one, as is what one thinks of his judgment.

I have this firm intention of dancing at your wedding, but the whole point is that you should be marrying Bambino

It's still on, Hilzoy...as soon as Spitzer makes it legal. :-)

And email me next time you're in Chicago eddie.

Will do K...I'll be there the end of April...will you be around? What's your latest email? Mine's in the link.

hilzoy's really the only voice of sanity, anymore, and even she's not averse to reading and even occasionally linking to Atrios or Sadly, No!,

So, is it that they make fun of people, or their sense of humor is lowbrow, or . . . what? I just can't figure out what your particular problem is with these guys. In between the snark, not to mention the dick and fart jokes, the S,N! guys have schooled quite a few people who needed schooling.

Snark can be a pretty annoying thing to wade through, when it's directed at you, your friends, and/or things you believe, it turns out, Phil.

That observation is not an argument against all use of snark; it's merely an observation that seems to be true.

"Snark can be a pretty annoying thing to wade through, when it's directed at you, Snark can be a pretty annoying thing to wade through, when it's directed at you, your friends, and/or things you believe, it turns out, Phil., it turns out"

True, as everyone left of Jonah Goldberg, who have been on the receiving end of rightwing snark for the last decade or so, could testify. But if snark aimed at the likes of the jonah Goldberg comment quoted by Hilzoy above annoys you, maybe you should rethink your choice of your friends, and/or things you believe.

Really? Snark can be annoying? Didn't know that -- thanks for the tip!

Is it so annoying that a link to it "puts a dent in [one's] last-bastion-of-sanity image?" I should hope not. I get the impression that Slarti doesn't like them because of the things they tend to be correct about, rather than because of the things they tend to be snarky about, but I'll let him answer for himself.

"Is it so annoying that a link to it 'puts a dent in [one's] last-bastion-of-sanity image?' I should hope not."

I suspect Slarti has not actually called any institutions to book a padded room for Hilzoy.

read: "But if snark aimed at the likes of the jonah Goldberg comment quoted by Hilzoy above annoys you, maybe you should rethink your choice of your friends, and/or things you believe."

Who is this referring to? Slart?

In any case, isn't this sort of thing contrary to the point of ObWi? If we each just decided to instruct everyone here who leans in a different direction than from us to "rethink your choice of your friends, and/or things you believe," wouldn't the blog have to dissolve in favor of a blog that swung only one way?

Because, you know, everyone here doesn't believe the same things. That's the premise of the blog.

Meanwhile, blithely responding to a joke (Slarti's) with an earnest suggestion to "rethink your choice of your friends, and/or things you believe," is a tad rude.

Especially when you're clearly unfamiliar with the people you're instructing.

I suspect Slarti has not actually called any institutions to book a padded room for Hilzoy.

Indeed. Luckily I am in no danger of taking Slarti so literally that I think he actually believes hilzoy to be insane. I'm just curious why, of all sites on Teh Internets, he believes those two are noteworthy in calling her judgement into question.

Was this really that difficult to suss out?

If rea is the rea I know who has been a long-time commenter at the Straight Dope Message Board, well . . . this should be interesting.

Over at Daily Kos, Kagro X (who has been beating Goldberg up pretty badly over the "bet") turned Goldberg's loss into a fundraiser for the USO. A bunch of us have given.

He should then find some other line of work, where he might yet, in some way, prove useful to mankind.

Must be almost time for a "jobs for Jonah" open thread.

the Straight Dope Message Board

never visited. is it, like i imagine, Pedant Central ?

I get the impression that Slarti doesn't like them because of the things they tend to be correct about, rather than because of the things they tend to be snarky about, but I'll let him answer for himself.

Odd. I have no idea what I might have said that gave you that impression. No, there's a long list of what I don't like about them, beginning with nonstop snark. There's lots more, but it's hardly worth bothering with.

Jonah's opinion is still valuable because the exact opposite position is usually closer to the truth.

No, there's a long list of what I don't like about them, beginning with nonstop snark.

I don't much like them either, and I mostly agree with them.

Hmmmm... and I mourn the demise/dearth of Fafblog, so for me it can't just be that they're snarky. Insufficiently imaginative snark, perhaps?

Fafblog contained a variety of tones, and was largely, if one was remotely sympathetic to its views, hilarious, rather than snarky.

He should then find some other line of work, where he might yet, in some way, prove useful to mankind.

This is far too much to ask. I'd settle for a spot where he does no harm

Fafblog...imagine otherwise normal people, after an LSD & jalapeno enema.

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