Geek-Fu

Because someone noted we haven't had an open thread in some time, and because I wanted to point out that someone stole my post title. The ObWings legal team is busy examining our options. Please remain calm.

Because this isn't just another deep space [blog] franchise. We stand for something.

Comments

[Ugh]

For some reason I absolutely detest the original Star Trek series; I find it unwatchable. I thought TNG was fairly good, didn't like Deep Space Nine, thought Voyager started out well and then went downhill, and didn't see much of Enterprise. Don't know what it is about the original series though.

But at least all is good and right in the world as Tiger won the Open Championship and the Buick Open yesterday (if you don't count Iraq, Lebanon, the Bush administration, etc. etc. etc.).

[Dantheman]

"if you don't count Iraq, Lebanon, the Bush administration, etc. etc. etc."

And today's shutdown of 8% of our oil production for months on end, which seems to be the dog not barking in the blogosphere.

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

Part of the legal team thinks you are out of luck. :)

[Ugh]

Oil's up $3 per barrel since saturday.

[hilzoy]

Ugh: and according to the WSJ, it's now within 5 cents of its all time high.

Six years in which we could have been working on alternative energy sources and serious conservation. Six years...

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

To pick up a late-breaking theme in an older post's comments--I hail from Anvilania.

Polka Dot? Again? (cue music).

[JakeB]

hilzoy--
you aren't old enough to remember the days when the White House had solar panels?

[Dantheman]

On the other hand, if Pollkatz's theory is accurate, it could mean Republican chances of holding on to Congress this fall are fading.

[Andrew]

Bonus points to anyone who can find the three (three!) B5 references, btw.

[Jesurgislac]

Isn't the ObWing legal team basically, well: Sebastian, Katherine, and a kitten with a gun?

Sebastian and Katherine will never agree on anything, and while they are occupied disagreeing, the kitten will probably shoot you and escape. Sorry.

Can we use this thread to condemn things we've never condemned on Obsidian Wings before? If so, I wish to condemn the substitution of John Sheridan for Jeffrey Sinclair, West Wing after Aaron Sorkin left, most of 11th season M*A*S*H apart from "Goodbye, Farewell, Amen", and Jane Austen's death having only written six novels, dammit.

[Andrew]

I think you already condemned the Sheridan/Sinclair switch, Jes.

[Ugh]

On the other hand, if Pollkatz's theory is accurate, it could mean Republican chances of holding on to Congress this fall are fading.

Certainly the folks in Bizarro World™ version 2.0 (or at least one of them) are worried.

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

I strongly dislike condemnation--it makes people grumpy.

The kitten with the gun (and the unusually long right paw) is a senior partner and therefore isn't involved in making actual legal decisions.

Katherine and I actually agree about a lot in the law. We just don't talk about it. :)

And don't forget von!

[cleek]

Jane Austen's death having only written six novels

... Elliott Smith, Nick Drake, and Jimi Hendrix for not making enough albums for us to see their abilities start to wane.

[Jesurgislac]

Sebastian: The kitten with the gun (and the unusually long right paw) is a senior partner and therefore isn't involved in making actual legal decisions.

Ah. Well, it's probably safer that way.

And don't forget von!

I think of Von as the kitten with the gun. ;-)

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

Hmm, and that is the unusually left paw. Sinister I say!

[Ugh]

Ugh: and according to the WSJ, it's now within 5 cents of its all time high.

Though, apparently still below the inflation adjusted all-time high of $90 per barrel, also according to WSJ.

I condemn George Lucas for Episodes I, II and a good deal of III; plus his money grubbing habit of releasing and then re-releasing the original trilogy in different versions, forcing me to purchase them again and again. The next iteration of this senseless outpouring of funds will occur in September.

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

Argh, preview is my friend. Unusually LONG left paw. Sheesh. Where is my proof-reader?

[lightning]

For some reason I absolutely detest the original Star Trek series; I find it unwatchable.

Me, too. I grew up with it; never missed an episode. But I go back and look at it today, and it's unwatchable. Bad acting, bad screenwriting, cheesy special effects, simplistic philosophy, bad science. Times change, tastes change.

Don't know what it is about the original series though.

Star Trek was one of the few television shows that was actively optimistic. The classic discussion of this is David Brin's comparison of Star Trek and Star wars, "Star Wars" despots vs. "Star Trek" populists. Mostly, he disses Star Wars, but it's a good discussion of Trek, too.

[CharleyCarp]

I believe that when used in this context, the proper term in geek shui. I also am under the impression that both Ugh and Dantheman are also members of the Obsidian Wings Bar.

[Dantheman]

Charley,

If we count mere commenters, you and Francis also count.

[Jesurgislac]

I am a member of the Obsidian Wings Bar.

If it's a wine bar.

[Ugh]

I also am under the impression that both Ugh and Dantheman are also members of the Obsidian Wings Bar.

We, like you, are outside counsel, though I only do tax work so suing for trademark infringement is right-out (now if you want to do a highly-structured, tax-efficient, cross-border financing, I'm your man, or at least the partners I work for are).

[Anarch]

If it's a wine bar.

I'll play if I get to mix drinks!

[CharleyCarp]

We, like you, are outside counsel

Well, you got to the thread before I did, and Francis still hasn't noted his appearance. (And of course there are others: LizardBreath off the top of my head . . .) I didn't intend a roll call; merely postulating the existence of an OWBA is work enough for the day.

And for a little geek fu, I'd have to say the TNG had much better trial scenes than the original.

[CharleyCarp]

dmbeaster too.

[liberal japonicus]

I personally think talking about the kitty's limbs is a bit of a four paw.

[Ugh]

lj - BOOOOOOO!!!!

CharleyC - just meant that the legal department is the lawyer-bloggers and outside counsel is the lawyer-commenters.

[CharleyCarp]

Speaking of geek fu (or shui, as appropriate), I have to say that anyone can watch, and care about, a TV show. The true talents of geekdom, imo, are the folks who can handle exercises like http://istherenosininit.blogspot.com/2006/08/message-sent-through-looking-glass.html>this.

I stand in awe.

[CharleyCarp]

Anderson.

[Francis]

to be pedantic beyond all reasonableness, while Mr. Holsclaw has his JD and has passed the California Bar Exam, he is not a "lawyer", because he is not a member of the California State Bar (see here).

(gotta pay those dues. [literally].)

A little truth-in-advertising: I am a civil lawyer working in a two lawyer firm and specializing in representing land developers and local governments in complying with California's environmental laws. Today's problem, for example, is working with a city on complying with its municipal separate storm sewer system (MS4) permit obligations.

what other professions are out there among the commentariat? what's fun / interesting / difficult about what you do for a living?

[bob mcmanusb]

Michael Berube liberal literatura perfesser and scourge of all thing Horowitz, searches for someone to his left and discovers fool's gold in the form of defenders of Hezbollah.

But he might have looked to his right and seen Bill Arkin.

When I read Berube, who calls for the disarmament of Hizbollah, I asked myself:"In Lebanon? With their history? Do I ask for the Sunni to lay down their arms in Iraq? Am I a bad person, Mr Berube?" Bill Arkin, as far as I can tell, reassures me, and tells me Condi is the fool at the UN today. It is so confusing.

This possibly doesn't belong in an open thread.

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

No, I've been admitted, I'm status active and they cash my checks.

[bob mcmanus]

(the extra 'b' is a typo aided and abetted by MS line completion and PW memory)

[Gary Farber]

Setting aside the original, which is sui generis, the best next generation Star Trek series was Deep Space 9. Absolutely. Vastly deeper and far more complicated and rich plot lines and characterizations, and serial evolution of both, than either Next Generation or Voyager.

I have spoken.

"And don't forget von!"

That's easily done -- the forgetting -- given the hit&run style he has with this place these days (I know, he has a baby). But it's frustrating; for instance, he dashes by to chastise Hilzoy for her post regarding the Raw Story link, when he obviously hasn't read the comments, and thus doesn't have the facts to realize that his comment makes no sense. I pointed this out to him, but I imagine he didn't read that, either.

I'd write him to ask him to address the facts as noted, but I don't have an e-mail address for him. (And note that his claim has been proven wrong: of course no one emerged today to deny the story they didn't deny in 2003.)

Where'd Edward go, by the way?

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

Edward is still posting regularly about art at his blog.

[Chuchundra]

I find myself agreeing with Gary. DS9, season 1 excepted, was a deep and spiritual story, well-told and well-acted. The relationship between Ben and Jake Sisko was one of the best portrayals of a father-son relationship that I've ever seen on TV.

TNG was, to a large extent, an updated clone of the original series. It was good, but not really special. Voyager was pretty much a complete mess and Enterprise had promise but it couldn't really hold my interest.

[Gary Farber]

"Edward is still posting regularly about art at his blog."

Yeah, I meant that he disappeared from here right after I pointed out a couple of things to him, which is, again, kind of frustrating.

CharleyCarp: "And for a little geek fu, I'd have to say the TNG had much better trial scenes than the original."

As I recall, TOS only had the one, "Court Martial," so that's not saying much. Melinda Snodgrass, who was a lawyer before starting to write sf, wrote the episode about the hearing as to whether Data has human rights, which is the TNG episode I suspect you're thinking of to compare to.

[Francis]

ya know, you'd think that if I link to the State Bar website, I could bother to double-check. but noooo.

my apologies, Sebastian. Welcome to overly high dues and abusive MCLE obligations.

[Gary Farber]

"DS9, season 1 excepted, was a deep and spiritual story, well-told and well-acted."

Yeah, I meant to say "particularly the last four or so seasons of DS9."

The first season was fairly lousy, particularly the first dozen or so episodes. The same is true of all the Next Generation Treks; they all took a while to shake down, though Voyager was far and away the worst series, period. (although it had some moments towards the end, and before that).

It's hard to establish quality in an sf tv series at the start; one has to build and show a universe, and that's not easy. The first season of B5, despite having a planned arc, was a lot rougher, too, and particularly the pilot (say, remember Delenn being bald, and having Magic Rings?).

The exceptions to this dynamic are very rare. Neo-Battletar Galactica is a stand-out exception. And Firefly.

[Gary Farber]

"Enterprise had promise but it couldn't really hold my interest."

I think the serial third season had some good stuff, but it really became fan heaven in the fourth season, when it began delving into all this pre-TOS stuff, and going with mostly three-part stories. (Although the three-parters often had weak endings, alas.)

The Vulcan trilogy was generally excellent, and the Khan-type Augments trilogy (with Brent Spiner) was also quite good. A number of other episodes were also quite fun. The Mirror Universe duo, for instance, with the Original Enterprise, er, Defiant, seen again.

A shame there was no fourth season, where we would have seen the creation of the floating cities, and other TOS homages, and more about the founding of the Federation.

[Andrew]

remember Delenn being bald

Delenn was bald throughout the first season, as are all Minbari. (A little geek-jitsu there.)

[Phil]

Can I just say -- and the musicians here will know what I mean -- that auditioning drummers is the absolutely worst thing ever in the history of ever? I mean, it's just an awful, awful process. It makes me wish the band could just use a metronome instead.

Ugh, re: Star Wars, I still maintain -- as I tried to slip in on another thread the other day, that Episode III is the third best film after Empire and Star Wars. I rank them: V, IV, III, II, VI, I.

As far as re-re-buying the original trilogy, unless you absolutely have to have them on a DVD, don't. The versions being released in September are non-anamorphic transfers in Surround 2.0, not Dolby 5.1. They are, in fact, ported from the "Definitive Edition" laserdiscs of the mid-90s. Which I have, and not that I condone copyright violations or anything, but they can easily be put onto DVDs as-is.

[Andrew]

Concur w/Phil. VI was horrid, and that's a real shame when you consider it's the grand finale.

[CharleyCarp]

No, Gary, there were others in TNG I liked better. An episode I remember was The Drumhead, but there were others.

[Gary Farber]

"VI was horrid, and that's a real shame when you consider it's the grand finale."

I wrote the following momentarily thinking you were referring to Revenge Of The Sith. Rereading, I realize you were referring to Return of The Jedi. So I'll leave what I wrote, and pick up after the next paragraph.
---------------------
Disagree strongly, but as it's purely subjective, I can't argue. All I can say is that I liked it a lot, and aside from Jar-Jar, and dialogue through the trilogy often ranging from mediocre to poor, most particularly as regards between Anakin and Padme, I like the prequel trilogy very much. I am well aware this is a minority view. Yet it is mine.

As I said, if nothing else, as a set of silent films, it's absolutely beautiful, visually.
---------------------------

Okay, Return of the Jedi: yeah, the problem there is that it's so much a remake of the first film. I understand that Lucas was happy to get a chance to go back to what he tried to do the first time, as regards the Death Star, when he had only a buck twenty, but, really, that was just such a wrong decision artistically. We really didn't need to see another Death Star blown up again. Boring, relatively speaking.

[Gary Farber]

Whoops, sorry about the italics.

[Phil]

Yeah, that's exactly it, Gary -- if one reads the lengthy, early SW screenplays that Lucas wrote, one finds all the elements that appeared in all six films in some form or another, and particularly in the OT. For whatever reason he couldn't drag himself away from the idea of returning to those elements for VI instead of trying to do some new things with the story; plus he had painted himself into some narrative corners that he obviously had trouble getting out of.

However, I will say this, to all the latter-day Lucas haters: Think of all the parts of Jedi that you hate. Now think of all the parts you love. The former were almost certainly directed by Richard Marquand. The latter were almost certainly directed by Lucas, uncredited. He definitely directed the Vader/Luke/Emperor fights, which were the best of the OT.

As for the OT, my rankings shouldn't be taken on any sort of absolute scale. I love all six films unreservedly -- that's just the in-universe scale of quality for me, as it were. If nothing else, the Obi-Wan parts of Episode II are a really interesting sort of Star Wars noir story.

[cleek]

what other professions are out there among the commentariat?

programmer. i work for a large, err, legal information company on a product that's probably very well known to many of the lawyers here. on the side, i'm a programmer specializing in 2-D graphics toolkits.

[cleek]

auditioning drummers is the absolutely worst thing ever in the history of ever?

it's been a while, but yeah, i remember the pain. specifically, i remember thinking "ugh. why don't they just play the songs like they are on those tapes we gave them (and obviously didn't bother listening to)) ? and does this mean our songs will never again sound the way they used to ? "

[Gary Farber]

"...if one reads the lengthy, early SW screenplays that Lucas wrote...."

Which I have. I also wrote four very lengthy posts examining what dropped out of Revenge of the Sith compared to one posted version of the screenplay. It starts here.

[Chuchundra]

what other professions are out there among the commentariat?

I operate a moderately-sized particle accelerator and I do various freelance computer geekery on the side. My lady love edits science fiction and fantasy novels.

[Ugh]

Ugh, re: Star Wars, I still maintain -- as I tried to slip in on another thread the other day, that Episode III is the third best film after Empire and Star Wars. I rank them: V, IV, III, II, VI, I.

I don't know, I have a hard time choosing between VI and III, I certainly don't think II is better than VI, though it could have been. I read the novelization of I (I'm a glutton for punishment), which was much much better than the film.

As far as re-re-buying the original trilogy, unless you absolutely have to have them on a DVD, don't. The versions being released in September are non-anamorphic transfers in Surround 2.0, not Dolby 5.1.

I don't have the full-on home theater surround sound (at least, not yet), is it that big a difference if I'm just watching with TV speakers or only two big stereo speakers?

They are, in fact, ported from the "Definitive Edition" laserdiscs of the mid-90s. Which I have, and not that I condone copyright violations or anything, but they can easily be put onto DVDs as-is.

Well that's good to know, I was worried that they weren't "cleaned up." I actually have the laser discs as well, any links to instructions on putting them on DVDs? Not sure its a copyright violation if I make a single copy for personal use, but I'm sure the hollywood studios would disagree.

The former were almost certainly directed by Richard Marquand. The latter were almost certainly directed by Lucas, uncredited.

Really? I always assumed that the fall off from V to VI was due to Lucas reasserting creative/editorial (if not full directorial) control, and leading to my conclusion that of the five films he's primarily responsible for, he made one great one, SW, two okay ones, ROTJ and ROTS, and two horrid ones, AOTC and TPM. And the Ewoks were totally his, were they not?

[Phil]

specifically, i remember thinking "ugh. why don't they just play the songs like they are on those tapes we gave them (and obviously didn't bother listening to)) ? and does this mean our songs will never again sound the way they used to ? "

Yes, yes, a million times yes. We auditioned two guys last night, and while one of them gets credit for actually having a clue as to the arrangements of the TWO WHOLE SONGS we asked them to learn, neither of them (as was once said of Doors' drummer John Densmore) could spell "rhythm" if you spotted them an "r," an "h" and two "m"s.

I don't have the full-on home theater surround sound (at least, not yet), is it that big a difference if I'm just watching with TV speakers or only two big stereo speakers?

Not at all. 2.0 is going to give you pretty much the same effect through either one, with differences in loudness, I think.

Personally, I think the falloff from V to VI was attributable to 1) major script problems, 2) not keeping Irving Kershner as director (and/or failing to secure Spielberg, who was otherwise occupied), and 3) soft-pedaling, via the use of the Ewoks (who were originally Wookiees in the screenplay), the intensity of the violence in the ground war against the Empire's forces on Endor.

In both V and VI, Lucas was by all accounts watching both Kersh and Marquand quite closely, every day. And he did direct a lot of sequences himself, including second unit stuff. But pretty much all the stuff on Death Star 2 was directed by Lucas himself, and it appears to be taking place in an entirely different movie from the Harrrison-and-Carrie-phone-it-in stuff directed by Marquand. I suppose Carrie gets some benefit of the doubt for being on coke at the time, but Ford has little excuse for his craptacularness in the Endor sequences.

[Gary Farber]

Open thread, I can talk about other political issues.

Thus, this post. Excerpt: [...] This is another very dangerous provision that would dramatically change the historic balance of power between the states and the federal government. Everyone should write or call their Congressional representatives to oppose it.

The nation's governors on Saturday launched a bipartisan drive to block a move to expand the president's authority to take over National Guard troops in case of natural disaster or homeland security threats.
[...]

Huckabee told reporters that the move to shift control of the Guard to the president during national emergencies "violates 200 years of American history" and is symptomatic of a larger federal effort to make states no more than "satellites of the national government."

Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack, the senior Democrat, called the proposal "one step away from a complete takeover of the National Guard, the end of the Guard as a dual-function force that can respond to both state and national needs."

The provision was tucked into the House version of the defense bill without notice to the states, something Vilsack said he resents as much as the proposal itself.

Note that Huckabee is a solid loyal Republican.

But if the President achieves direct control over the National Guard, he has ever so much more power to take us directly into war. That's without getting into paranoia about civil insurrection scenarios or civil strife.

I can't imagine how any real "conservative" could support this provision, nor why any liberal would.

Spread the word, please.

[Gary Farber]

"My lady love edits science fiction and fantasy novels."

For what company?

[Gary Farber]

"not keeping Irving Kershner as director"

Irvin.

[Jay C]

Gary: re your post @ 7:18:

I would disagree with you about the Battlestar Galactica 2.0 - the Mrs. and I are big Sci-Fi Channel fans, and have watched the show from the beginning; and we would both put it squarely in the takes-time-to-improve category. The pilot and first half-dozen or so episodes, were, imho, teh suck: but after mid-first season got considerably better. It's still far from ideal - the cheapo costumes and murky lighting, frex; to say nothing of its irritating lack of exposition at times: but all in all, vastly improved over the beginning.

[Gary Farber]

"The pilot and first half-dozen or so episodes, were, imho, teh suck"

Okay. I wildly disagree, but you're entitled to be wrong. ;-)

No, seriously, obviously you're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

No matter that you're wrong.

;-) ;-) ;-) :-)

[Gary Farber]

And back on the serious front again, three more stories of soldiers, good and bad. I've not seen any mention of these cases here. They're all big stories, with the sort of moral issues Hilzoy tends to blog about.

I think everyone might be interested.

Discuss.

[cleek]

"The moon is bright... over Lebanon tonight, the Lebanese moon looks down, shim sham shacam, cattle explode, cow shrapnel drips off tree into mother's tear for little boy who goes on into battle and comes back dead, or worse, a man."

Bruce, from the Kids In The Hall

no, it's funny

[Chuchundra]

For what company?

That would be telling.

[lily]

Gary, those stories make me feel sad more than angry, don't know why. Maybe because it's so predictable.

The results are predictble,too: rightwing denies it happened, blames the whistleblower, accuses the reporters of undermining the effort, whistleblower gets defamed, etc. Fifty years from now the right people will be recognized as heroes, the others as villians, and the whole war will be recognized as a fit of national insanity but by then we'll be on to the next war...

[Gary Farber]

"That would be telling."

Let me put it this way: are we talking major company or minor company, NYC-based or not, inhouse or freelance, full-time or part-time? Line-editing or copy-editing? Acquiring or not?

[Phil]

That's what I both love and hate about you, Gary -- that you actually took the time to post a unique, one-word reply correcting my misspelling of Kershner's name. Only you . . . :)

[Gary Farber]

"Gary, those stories make me feel sad more than angry, don't know why."

The last one, the one with Colonel Steele, I first read about last week (or earlier?), and I was so depressed and stunned by it that I just couldn't blog about it.

After these other two stories today, I went back to it to put them together, although I still couldn't bring myself to write anything at all insightful or useful about them.

But the story of PFC. Watt has a pretty positive aspect to it, I think, that he spoke up, at what's arguably likely risk to his own life, and I think that's always worth celebrating.

Crimes are inevitable in war, as elsewhere -- perhaps particularly in war, arguably, so I'm glad to find something positive to cling to, as well.

[Gary Farber]

"...that you actually took the time to post a unique, one-word reply correcting my misspelling of Kershner's name."

I have a thing about spelling people's names correctly; I plead guilty. I'm not sure why; something about respect I think they're due, perhaps.

Or making them more googleable.

See, it's all part of my duty to be helpful. Yeah, that's the ticket....

[hilzoy]

Gary: I had also read your last story, and couldn't think what to say. Likewise, the rape/killing/buri the bodies case.

And then there's this, from the rape/killing etc. trial:

"Defense Attorney Captain Jimmie Culp was blowing chewing gum bubbles while Yribe, sitting to his left, began sucking on a red lollipop during the testimony."

(via Americablog)

[Gary Farber]

"After the rape and murders, he wrote that he began to grill chicken wings."

[Gary Farber]

This seems like a good development, insofar as it goes.

Lebanon will deploy its army in the south of the country after the Israel Defense Forces' withdrawal from the area, the Lebanese cabinet agreed Monday night, in a decision supported by all the ministers present, including the five Shi'ite ministers who represent Hezbollah and Amal.

The decision marks the first time since 1982 that the Lebanese government has decided to impose its sovereignty in the south of the country.

[...]

For the purpose of the deployment, the Lebanese defense minister Monday announced the mobilization of reservists. All Lebanese soldiers who were discharged in the past five years will be called up for duty.

Reports say that the Lebanese army will call up some 15,000 reservists for deployment in the south. They will be mobilized August 10-16, in keeping with orders published in Lebanon on Monday.

The measure was announced by Lebanese Information Minister Ghazi al-Aridi, who outlined the considerations that led to the decision. Al-Aridi said that the upcoming political developments were dependent on the response of the international community to the decision.

Of course:

[...] He also added that, following the deployment of the army in the south of the country, Hezbollah would remain in the area "as a party that represents an entire segment of the population."

Al-Aridi stressed that the organization would remain a partner to decision-making in the country and that the deployment of the army was designed "to reap the fruits of Lebanon's military achievement."

But that's to be expected, and seems entirely livable with. Of course, the Lebanese are still also demanding a prisoner exchange, withdrawal from Shebaa Farms (on which they have no claim at all, of course; it's Syrian territory), and so on, but we'll see what happens. This proposal at least seems to be progress.

[Gary Farber]

New poll:

Most Americans describe themselves as being in an anti-incumbent mood heading into this fall's midterm congressional elections, and the percentage of people who approve of their own representative's performance is at the lowest level since 1994, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

[...]

Eighty-one percent of Democrats say the war was not worth fighting, and 70 percent feel that way "strongly."

[...]

Especially worrisome for members of Congress is that the proportion of Americans who approve of their own representative's performance has fallen sharply. Traditionally, voters may express disapproval of Congress as a whole but still vote for their own member, even from the majority party. But 55 percent now approve of their lawmaker, a seven-percentage-point drop over three months and the lowest such finding since 1994, the last time control of the House switched parties.

"That's dramatic," said Republican consultant Ed Rollins, who was White House political director under President Ronald Reagan.

In a small boost for Bush, his approval rating inched up to 40 percent, two percentage points higher than in June and seven higher than in May, suggesting he may have arrested a slide that deeply unnerved Republican lawmakers and strategists.

[...]

At the same time, the poll's findings underline the challenge for Democrats. For all their disenchantment, most voters are not sure what the party stands for. Just 48 percent say Democrats offer a clear direction different from Republicans, while 47 percent say they do not. The public does not think that Bush or the Democrats have a clear plan for Iraq. Even a slight majority of Democrats say their party does not have an Iraq strategy.

That's fair enough, I think.

[...] The poll mirrored results of surveys at this point 12 years ago, just three months before Republicans swept out Democratic majorities from both houses of Congress. Fifty-three percent now call themselves anti-incumbent, while 29 percent describe themselves as inclined to reelect lawmakers -- almost precisely the same percentages as in June 1994.

In another echo of 1994, the poll showed Congress remains broadly unpopular, with six in 10 Americans disapproving of its performance. The only consolation for members is that the 36 percent who approve represents a slight bump up from May, when the institution hit a 10-year low.

Full results here. 55% approval for your own Representative over 37% disapprove is still, of course, majority approval.

[Gary Farber]

Here's an interesting figure that didn't make it into the story:

Compare to: Do you think the United States is doing all it reasonably can do to try to avoid civilian casualties in Iraq, or do you think it should do more?

US doing US should No
all it can do more opin.
6/25/06 58 39 3
3/23/03 82 15 4
10/15/01* 85 12 2

"Should do more" to avoid civilian casualties took a big jump, from 82/15% to 58/39%. News of the various criminal allegations has clearly had an impact.

[Gary Farber]

What motivates the Republican base.

[Andrew]

For those who think I'm nuts for suggesting that government is going to get into the diet and exercise business as health care is taken over by the state, read the last two paragraphs in this story. For now, of course, it will be voluntary.

[hilzoy]

Andrew: part of my skepticism is just that I think that mandatory programs telling us what to do and how much to exercise, as opposed to public education (e.g., TV spots), making voluntary stuff available, etc., would be politically impossible. Another part, of course, is that I don't think that there's any intention of enacting mandatory programs, but the political uproar that would result from anything resembling mandatory exercise programs doesn't require speculation about legislators' intentions.

[hilzoy]

I should also say: I have to give a talk, so will be out of town until Thurs. Maybe there will be internet access, maybe not; who can say? In any case, have fun.

[Andrew]

hilzoy,

Have fun.

While I concur that such programs would be politically difficult, I think you underestimate the logic of politicians. How many people get sick and/or die every year because they don't eat right? I don't know, but I'm sure that some interest group will come up with a sufficiently high number that Congress will be 'forced' to take action to save X number of lives a year.

It's for the children, don't you know?

[Jesurgislac]

Andrew: For now, of course, it will be voluntary.

Can you find any instance in any of the countries with universal health care systems of the government of that country forcing people to eat what the government tells them to eat, or do exercise according to government rules?

For those who think I'm nuts for suggesting that government is going to get into the diet and exercise business as health care is taken over by the state

Not "nuts", Andrew. You just prefer people to suffer and die rather than get healthcare, on the Nineteen Eighty-Four-ish fantasy that if the government provides healthcare, the government will force you to eat healthy foods, avoid unhealthy activities, and do regular exercise. I doubt you can come up with any example of this actually happening in any of the countries where healthcare is provided by the government - but nevertheless, you think your fantasy should be regarded as a legitimate fear and should trump real people actually suffering and actually dying.

Whether or not this prioritising of fantasy over reality actually makes you "nuts" is left as an exercise for the reader.

[cleek]

insurance companies in the US have persuaded employers to get into the fitness game - setting rates and benefits according to the number of times employees go to the gym per month, for example. it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that the govt (should it become responsible for paying for health care) would want to do similar things.

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

I strongly suspect the coercion would come from a more typical government outlet--sin taxes. This could lead to hilarious/tragic outcomes as the government fell behind on which foods were bad and which were good.

[Ugh]

I strongly suspect the coercion would come from a more typical government outlet--sin taxes. This could lead to hilarious/tragic outcomes as the government fell behind on which foods were bad and which were good.

You already see this at the state level where food is generally exempt from sales tax but "bad" food, generally candy and the like, is not. IIRC there was some huge battle waged recently (maybe more than one) over whether a certain kind of food should be subject to sales tax (maybe in California).

[Dantheman]

Ugh,

IIRC, it was for snack foods, such as potato chips, in California. This nonsense is not limited to food or health reasons. PA's sales tax generally exempts clothing, but certain items deemed luxuries, such as bathing suits and expensive shoes (I think the threshold is $75).

For that matter, the list of items exempt from seizing personal property to pay a judgment in PA is also bizarre, including sewing machines.

[Ugh]

Well, if a man can't keep his sewing machine, he has nothing.

[Chuchundra]

I think Jes is being more than a little unfair to Andrew. One of the defining attributes of the right (up until recently, anyway) has been a strong, healthy mistrust of the government. I've often thought that that's a valuable trait.

Andrew, of course, is being silly. Every other western, industrialized nation has some form of universal health care and none of them, as far as I know, have any sort of mandatory exercise or healthy-eating programs. I don't think you could get even the Japanese to go for something like that, forget about getting it off the ground here in US.

That isn't to say that there wouldn't or shouldn't be healthy living and eating programs sponsored by the government; things like healthier school lunches, subsidized exercise programs and nutritional counseling. There are similar things now, but I would expect them to be more widespread and popular.

Andrew's 1984ish scenario does have merit as fiction, though. Imagine a dystopian future where TV use is strictly regulated, there are mandatory, government-run, fat farms for the obese and a thriving black market in Ring Dings and Snickers bars. It almost writes itself.

[cleek]

Well, if a man can't keep his sewing machine, he has nothing.

i think that was the moto on the PA militia's battle flags during the Rev. war. the British tax on sewing machines was quite burdensome.

[Slartibartfast]

Well, if a man can't keep his sewing machine, he has nothing.

It should surprise no one to learn that I am the seamster of the house. I actually own and know how to operate a sewing machine.

[Gary Farber]

"This could lead to hilarious/tragic outcomes as the government fell behind on which foods were bad and which were good."

Dr. Melik: [puzzling over list of items sold at Miles' old health-food store] ... wheat germ, organic honey and... tiger's milk.
Dr. Aragon: Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible!

[Gary Farber]

Here is another minimum wage piece for you, Andrew. Not particularly to start debate again; just offering it as reading matter.

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

I vaguely remember some sort of milk controversy in California schools recently. I think the anti-milk side was focused on fat content and (strangely) lactose intolerance. The pro-milk side talked about calcium. Anyone with good economics training would have asked about the health benefits of realistic replacements (cola or highly sugary fruit juices anyone).

That vaguely reminds me of a discussion I had with a militant vegan friend (he really is. Going out to eat with him is very annoying). It went something like this.

Sebastian: (Ordering milk at breakfast)

Friend: You shouldn't drink milk, it's bad for you.

Sebastian: What? Why?

Friend: 45% of adults are lactose intolerant.

Sebastian: I drink 2 gallons of milk a week. I think I'd notice if I were lactose intolerant.

Friend: It's bad for you.

[SomeOtherDude]

I wish conservatives would have used their “mistrust” of the government when Bush and Company claimed they could spread “democratic values” by way of the American State.

[Ugh]

militant vegan

Militantveganofacsists!!!!11!1!!! Quick, somebady invade some country somewhere!

[Slartibartfast]

Somewhere, hopefully, there is a fairy godmother that will hear your plea.

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

Would the proper term be "aggressively prosteltizing vegan"?

[Ugh]

Would the proper term be "aggressively prosteltizing vegan"?

Dammit Sebastian! You're losing the war already and it hasn't even gotten started!

[Slartibartfast]

proselytizing?

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

"You're losing the war already and it hasn't even gotten started!"

You might think that, except my comment was more in the vein of "Is the proper term 'handicapable perdaughter of differing-but-certainly-not-worse vision characteristics'" :)

[jpe]

There must be something in the air, because I stumbled across another marvelously stupid snippet on Kant.

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/bac/2006/08/07/oped/g.h..arinday.jr..sunfare.html>From noted sunstar scholar G.H. Arinday, in the midst of discussing a judge that claimed the ability to read minds and channel spirits:

"If psychic phenomena have no place in the judicial plateau, then how would we explain the "a priori" of Immanuel Kant, who called his theory as "transcendental philosophy"?"

[Phil]

I think Jes is being more than a little unfair to Andrew.

Jes is more than a little unfair to everyone with whom she disagrees about something. She has precisely two tools in her arsenal: The fallacy of the excluded middle, and poisoning the well. Oh, and a mindreading machine. She'll hit you with them again and again and again, then pretend she won.

I'm sure I'm probably violating the posting rules here, but I grow weary both of seeing Jes constantly tell other people what they think, feel and want; and of getting away with malarkey like pretending that the bad consequences of paths she wants are incidental, while the bad consequences of paths others want are their actual preference.

[Ugh]

Ah, I see we must be getting close enough to the election for Rove to release the hounds:

The FBI has issued an urgent nationwide alert for 11 Egyptian students who entered the United States last week but failed to show up for their courses at Montana State University.

(hounds being scary alerts, not Egyptian students)

[xanax]

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