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November 07, 2005

Comments

Gary: I just realized that you got here first. I checked before I started writing this, but alas not before I had answered the phone, done some work, etc., before finishing it.

We have long since passed the point where the Bush administration could credibly appeal to anyone, Republican or Democrat, to trust them on these issues.

Hilzoy:

You've got to come to terms with the fact that a substantial number of our fellow citizens simply disagree with you (and I) about the constituent parts that make up the glory of the United States. You aren't going to convince them of anything, because they are unwilling to see anything terribly wrong with the way things are run now. All we can really do is hope that we end up more numerous than them over time. If we can identify minor issues (e.g., gun control) that will pull a few of them over, all to the better. But we are never going to convince them about the widescale problems associated with this Administration.

New National anthem under Bush:

Our country tis of thee
We tortured Jamadi
...

And of course, let's remember that the same crowd that wrote these memos and implemented this policy also gave us the "few bad apples" defense concerning the initial revelations of torture, and the statement of policy out of Bush's mouth that the US allegedly does not condone any form of torture.

Liars.

Freedom is on the March. We are spreading democracy -- except no one overseas believes it. Only the self-deluders here.

"If we can identify minor issues (e.g., gun control) that will pull a few of them over, all to the better."

Not remotely the issue I'd advocate using, unless the goal is to lose more potential Democratic votes, IMO. Telling people you want to take away their guns (even if that's not quite what you're saying, it's what they'll hear) isn't generally a winning argument outside of those who already don't own guns (like me, and it's not even an argument that convinces me).

They might be for criminal control, on the other hand, if that were an issue weighing on them.

I meant the other way, Gary: guns for everyone, etc.

All we can really do is hope that we end up more numerous than them over time.

I see a new pickup line a-borning.

then everyone who had anything to do with those memos should be drummed out of our government

John Yoo's teaching at Berkeley.

Whatever happened to abortions for some, miniature American flags for others?

Don't blame me, I voted for Ann Richards in 1994.

"We have long since passed the point where the Bush administration could credibly appeal to anyone, Republican or Democrat, to trust them on these issues."

No, we haven't. If you think otherwise, you haven't been reading Redstate (or many other conservative sites) recently. The number of people who still believe Bush cannot do anything wrong (except possibly nominate someone to the Supreme Court who is too moderate for them), while smaller than 4 years ago at this time, is still a positive integer, and larger than one would think possible.

Dantheman: I think I meant credibly in its normative sense. Sort of like "not machine washable", which is not falsified by pointing out that you have, in fact, washed the article of clothing in a machine.

hilzoy,

I think the difference is that if you machine wash a garment which is not machine washable, you will notice a change in the garment when you are done. On the other hand, if you tell a rabid Bush supporter to trust this administration on the Administration's complicity in torture, or the rectitude thereof, then that person will continue to hold the same beliefs, regardless of how wrong or morally repugnant they are.

dantheman: true enough. (Imagining, say, Erick from RedState in the guise of the last sweater I inadvertently wrecked has made my day.)

Don't blame me, I voted for Ann Richards in 1994.

Yeah, but not enough to times, you slacker bastage.

After the decision in Bush v. Gore, the only way I could pry my depressed self off the sofa, after reading Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy in its entirety, was to go out and print up bumper stickers that said: Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Justice Ginsburg.

Hah. Justice Ginsburg's dissent had a non-zero effect on my decision to quit journalism and go to law school.

"According to the memo, Congress has no constitutional right to interfere with the President in his role as Commander-in-Chief, including making laws that limit the ways in which prisoners may be interrogated."

This is actually incorrect. Congress has the absolute power of the purse. The members may not have the stomach (or other necessary body parts) to use it, but it is there.

The Levin Amendment failed on a party line vote today. 43 of 45 Democrats voted yes. Nelson of Neraska voted no & Corzine wasn't there. 54 of 55 Republicans voted no. McCain abstained. I doubt you can read a moral stand into that, he doesn't seem to have voted on anything today.

Depressing, depressing, depressing.

I googled Levin Amendment and got several hits. To which do you refer?

This is actually incorrect. Congress has the absolute power of the purse.

Yes. It has more than that though:

The Congress shall have Power To . . . declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water [and] To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces

It seems to me that some people simply refuse to read Article I of the Constitution.

Cheer up, Hilzoy, a little government-sponsored crucifixion shouldn't get us all http://www.thebards.net/music/lyrics/Always_Look_Bright_Side_Life.shtml>down in the dumps.

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