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June 17, 2005

Comments

Good grief, I think we've run across yet another of those areas where you and I are in complete agreement.

It's our duty as citizens to question authority. Not to reflexively, inanely question authority, but to agree with authority when authority is agreeable to your morality, and disagree otherwise. Abdicating one's responsibility to think and decide for oneself is, I submit, devoid of all things good.

Yes.

Oh, and hilzoy, I think we ought to permalink that post on the front page. Everyone who comes here to read ought to read that first.

...plus of course wub for Hilzoy. Yes.

excellent post Slarti.

And today, I had someone question my patriotism for the first time.

How did you respond?

Slarti: Having waded through that comments section, a) I need a shower, and b) you are truly a man of extraordinary magnitude. Excellent post, too.

Edward: Check the comments section of that Maguire thread if you both care and dare.

I'm out of here for the next several hours. Party preparation needs my attention.

Edward: Check the comments section of that Maguire thread if you both care and dare.

I read a chunk...not for the squeamish. Good on you for standing up to that Slarti. Seriously, you've risen several notches in my esteem (and you were pretty high already)...just be sure not to hit your head up there. ;-)

I'm out of here for the next several hours. Party preparation needs my attention.

In keeping with your newfound Hate America status, will this be a We *Heart* Bin Laden party or just a garden-variety Rum, Sodomy and the Academia one?

To join the chorus, good work on that Maguire comment thread. What you did there isn't easy.

Wow. Somebody actually used, unironically, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists" on Slarti. Un-effing-believable.

Kudos, Slarti, for fighting the good fight. Sticking to your principles in the face of friendly fire from political soulmates is a tough thing to bear.

The utter cluelessness of those commenters is amazing. No American has tortured anyone. Wow, I have to revise all my opinions now!

Boy, that was an ... interesting comments thread. I stopped right after the poster that said (as Phil noted above) "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists."

I just don't understand how some people can continue to deny or excuse abuse and torture. Hell, it's because I'm an American exceptionalist that I'm so disturbed by it.

Thanks.

What a poisonous place. I felt like I'd walked into a dark room, turned on the light, and sent armies of roaches scurrying all over the place.

Slarti, you get major kudos for daring to disagree over there.

Powerline is now selling T-Shirts saying "I Heart Gitmo."

I'm not sure how much of that is the equivalent of dyeing one's hair purple to outrage one's parents, and now much is actually celebrating Gitmo.

I hope the former. I'd much prefer to think they're going for some kind of outrageous camp, dreamed up simply to tweak liberals, than that they've completely slipped their last sprocket.

"Oh, and hilzoy, I think we ought to permalink that post on the front page."

Second.

(In fact, I'd like to see hilzoy's "More Things We Throw Away" published in every newspaper in the land.)

Oh, it was Al. Dude gets around. If you read Yglesias, you won't be surprised.

Al also likes to hang out at Drum's, though nobody's sure if the one who posts as "Al" really is the One True & Original Al or one of the many Al-spoofs that've sprung up.

It's great that Slart is, increasingly, one of the Damned(and not very surprising); the post should really be entitled "Why Does Slart Hate America?" But the other guys are still the Other guys, and they still run the country. Don't count on changing too many of those minds.

Oy vey, Slarti.

I'm stopping reading that thread over at Maguire's now (I just got to the comment about "And so they want to defeat Bush (or the Right or neocons or Christers) more than they want to defeat the terrorists" (meaning you, Slarti... I'm speechless! I'm flabbergasted! I'm... choking!) and now I'm going to have a nice hot cup of tea and wish you a very good evening. Also, I might take a shower.

I do wish sometimes the posting rules didn't forbid profanity. Sometimes profanity is the only way to express oneself appropriately.

Dear sweet ***** ****, what are these people on?

Sheesh. That was one repellent comment thread. (Thanks lucky stars for commenters here, as is her wont.) Wow. Slart, with the terrorists: who'da thunk it?

I can't quite see the resemblance to Vidkun Quisling either, but maybe that's just me.

I hate it when people I don't know question my patriotism because of what ought to be a straightforward disagreement, and I'm sorry you had to experience it firsthand. Fwiw, I think you were heroic, especially going up against people you might normally agree with.

The post was good too. (My surge protectors did that too, once: my computer was fried by lightning, but the two (2) linked surge protectors I had plugged it into were fine.)

Have fun at the party. I, too, am off.

And I'm back, very briefly.

What I did over there is hardly heroic. Some of those people are obviously dismissable, while others simply don't see it this way. Which is exactly where I was a few months ago, so it's hard for me to think of them as bad people. And the questioning the with-us-or-against-us was so silly that I couldn't possibly have taken it seriously enough to bother me. The hardest part, though, was being on the side (this issue only!) of people with whom I most frequently disagree. That...that was hard.

Well, as one of the people who frequently disagrees with you, it's a pleasure having you on our side for a bit.

Slarti: The hardest part, though, was being on the side (this issue only!) of people with whom I most frequently disagree. That...that was hard.

I have every sympathy with you for that. Though I fear that probably doesn't help.

That...that was hard.

Courage, comrade Slarti. Relax and let the hooks do their work.

I tried to look, but I couldn't read more than a couple of lines. I'm a little surprised by Maguire. His politics are crap, and he is often a bit glib in dismissing the other side's arguments, but I've always considered him clearly in the "Reasonable Republican" camp.

My admiration for Slarti has little to do with his policy positions, and can be only marginally increased by and agreement on issues.

Never had any lightning damage, but currently running...my numbers here are probably wrong...2500 amps on a 1500 house box. A couple of years ago was worse, more like 3000-3500 amps with a room full of medical equipment. Certain breakers would flip several times a day, and unused wall sockets were hot to the touch.

The lady won't let me change out the main box or run a new dedicated line to the air conditioner or computer rooms for some reason. Can't imagine why not. The expense of an electrician is something we are putting off until we go up in flames, I guess.

Computers and big TV's...and dvd players and stereos...can kill you in large quantities.

What slays me about all of this is that the people most up in arms about the "Nazi Comments" are the same people who get high blood pressure over "that PC crap." I'm sorry, but they are getting absolutely as worked up over semantics and comparisons and the implications of words as the worst of the professional victims I had to rub elbows with on campus.

Turning every issue into an argument about rhetoric and semantics is a sure sign that the Semantically Morally Outraged on the right have absorbed the worst of the PoMo/Deco bandwagoner tactics without ever realizing the hypocrisy of decrying the state of academia at the same time they embrace the tactics which started the culture war in the first place.

No, this is all about who we are as a nation: are we a nation that tolerates inhumanity, or are we a nation that treats prisoners, even those who we hold to have no honor, honorably?

Yes!! YES!!!

I've been saying that for a while, though perhaps not as clearly.

I don't believe for a minute that the choice is "torture or die" but if it were, there's a simple choice that people are making different ways here. Is it more important to survive the attack of the uncivilized or to remain civilized even during conflict? I think the proponents of the former are saying, "I'll be anyone I need to be to stay alive." Proponents of the latter are saying, "I'd rather be dead than a monster."

What slays me about all of this is that the people most up in arms about the "Nazi Comments" are the same people who get high blood pressure over "that PC crap."

You betcha. I find this worthwhile to point out when talking to them: "Granting that he didn't phrase his criticism in the most PC possible manner..."

That's a good one, LizardBreath.

"The hardest part, though, was being on the side (this issue only!) of people with whom I most frequently disagree. That...that was hard."

Yep-you're just like the cop in DieHard who just had the dead terrorist land on his hood.

Welcome to the party pal.

I'm jumping down to the "post" part of the page, but I assume I'm one of many to thank Slart for this post. Having your patriotism questioned and then getting flooded and struck by lightning on top of that? I'm sending a cyberhug your way and hoping that the party is fantastic.

I'd never read a thread at Maguire's place before. Interesting to see so many familiar handles, making such nauseating arguments. The latest post in the thread, from about 2pm, claims to deliver a "crushing" blow to Slartibartfast, but the lightning strike there seems to have fizzled, as far as I can tell.

(**Backs up files**)

I just read that thread, too. Yuck. It makes me appreciate this place all the more.

Just when you thought it was safe to be Michael Schiavo:

Gov. Jeb Bush asked a Florida prosecutor today to investigate what he said were varying accounts of the time that had elapsed between Terri Schiavo's collapse 15 years ago and the moment that her husband summoned help.

The governor's request to the Pinellas-Pasco County state attorney, Bernie McCabe, comes two days after the results of Ms. Schiavo's autopsy were made public. Ms. Schiavo, who had been severely brain-damaged since suddenly losing consciousness in 1990, died on March 31 after a prolonged legal battle between her parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, and her husband, Michael Schiavo, who finally prevailed in his efforts to have her feeding tube removed.

The autopsy found that Ms. Schiavo's brain had withered to half its normal size, strengthening her husband's contention that her condition was irreversible and conflicting with her parents' position that she was partly cognizant, responsive to them and could have improved with therapy.

Although inconclusive on the cause of Ms. Schiavo's collapse at age 26, the autopsy report by the medical examiner of Pinellas County, where Ms. Schiavo died 15 years later, generally supported the view that she had been unaware and incapable of recovery regardless of any therapy or treatment. It also found no evidence that she had had an eating disorder that could have triggered her collapse, nor any indication of abuse or foul play, as suggested by her parents.

The lack of an identifiable cause of Ms. Schiavo's condition was one factor cited by Governor Bush in his letter to the prosecutor today. Mr. Bush focused on what he said were discrepancies in the timeline concerning her initial collapse on Feb. 25, 1990, and her husband's summoning of aid. Mr. Bush said that records showed that Mr. Schiavo called 911 at 5:40 a.m. that day. The governor noted in his letter to Mr. McCabe that Mr. Schiavo had said during a medical malpractice trial in 1992 involving his wife that Ms. Schiavo collapsed at 5 a.m., but in a more recent television interview had said that he found her at 4:30 a.m.

"Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay," Mr. Bush wrote. "In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome."...

In a statement issued by Mr. Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos, Mr. Schiavo assailed the governor's action today "outrageous" and characterized it as an effort to deflect attention from the conclusions in the medical examiner's autopsy report.

"I have consistently said over the years that I didn't wait but 'ran' to call 911 after Terri collapsed," Mr. Schiavo said.

The statement added that Mr. Schiavo had, in the past, used approximate times in speaking of that night and that he was not wearing a watch or consulting at a clock while dealing with his wife's collapse.

Dear god...I cannot believe how shameless/pathological Governer Bush and the rest of the "Michael Schiavo Is Teh Anti-Christ" crowd are.

Not up to checking out Slarti's commendable battle with Maguire's torture-loving wolves at this time;
I already feel dirty enough as it is.

A bleach shower is in order.


(hat tip to this Ampersand commenter)

Mattbastard: Just when you thought it was safe to be Michael Schiavo

It's unreal. Dialogue from livejournal:

A: Gee, your spoudse has just collapsed unexpectedly on the floor and stopped breathing? Do you know what time it is? Quick now, don't get it wrong!

B: Yep, when I find my beloved unconscious on the floor and not breathing, the first thing I should look for is a clock. Because, ya know, that'll really help. :/

C: Yeah, and remember the exact time she collapsed when asked by the Medical Examiner's office 15 years later!


I keep trying to come up with some glib snark to help temper my outrage at Jeb Bush's complete lack of human decency.

Unfortunately, everything that comes to mind is neither glib nor permissible under the current posting rules.

Since this is an open thread, I'd like to point out that Mukhtaran Mai has got an official invite to the U.S. Your move Mushie.

As for the topic at hand, I noticed a commenter refer to the Abu Ghraib troops as "sexual sadists." Could be true, what with the dog leash and all. But I must have missed the cat-o'-nine tails. Maybe they'll be in the next batch.

A wide range of feelings come up when I read this post that span from happiness ('come on over, join the good guys!') to anger ('what took you so long, Forrest?') that reflect on me rather than on the writer (and poorly at that) and probably underlie my thoughts, so caveat lector.

But I was struck (a phrase that I use often, because that's how it feels) by the further ramifications of Slart's title and the relationship to what he writes about. The lightning strike (again, to my prejudiced eye) reminds one of the characteristics of satori, enlightenment's poor relation, where one sees the outlines of all, but only for a moment.

I'm tempted to suggest that this is a one way street, that liberals are immune to it, but I certainly don't think that is the case. I have these epiphanies all the time, usually in the form of 'grumpy old man' moments, where I tsk tsk at something that I would have embraced 20 years ago, or certainly not had any problem with when I was younger. Perhaps these are unwanted epiphanies, and teaching college students is one way that I avoid having to take them to heart, though I seem to have a number of colleagues who are arch conservatives in terms of change, and talking to other teachers suggests that this is a condition that has arisen (at least in them) from being confronted by waves of 20 year olds, each group seemingly more clueless than the last.

At any rate, to return to the satori of this post, I'm selfishly hoping that Slart's line about it paining him to agree with people he disagrees with on almost everything is just a throwaway line, but humor often has a nugget of truth. I still remember the feeling I had, after 9-11, that we would see the archtypical American story, where someone who seemed ill suited to the task ahead would find the resources and become greater than the problem. I recall discussions on email lists here in the run-up to Iraq where I argued for the invasion, where I said that even if you conceded the previous problems and obsfucations, they were not determinative. Perhaps, because I recall no satori moment, I was just arguing that side in spite of rather than out of my view of reality, though I don't have any memory of being upset/embarrassed/ashamed of agreeing with people who I would have half a year earlier disagreed with. As for the people who were disagreeing with me, I thought that the fullness of time would prove them wrong. Perhaps I was implacably on the other side the whole time, and my feeling that we have lost our way after thinking that invading was the right course is simply me returning to my natural state. Maybe Slart's flash of satori is nothing compared to the jolt that I would need.

This is probably seizing on a small point in a post in order to change its character into something that the writer wouldn't recognize. Perhaps, but sometimes, the truth is not what is on the surface, but what lies underneath and if this is satori, one wonders about the outlines of the things that were not perceived this time.

Looks like http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=19189>Tom Tomorrow is losing his sense of humor about this stuff.

Tom Tomorrow is way down on the list of my worries, DaveL. Plus, even less talented than Ted Rall, and half the charm.

JFTR, four martinis. Any incoherency from here until, say, twelve hours from now, will be solely attributable to the four...maybe five? martinis. Shut up, over there.

is alcohol a valid excuse for incoherancy?

if so,

3 beers and two glasses of white wine.
I reserve the right to make no sense at all after my next glass of cabernet.

please note that alcohol is a valid excuse for bad spelling.


just cauze i sed sew.

Tom Tomorrow is way down on the list of my worries, DaveL. Plus, even less talented than Ted Rall, and half the charm.

Are you serious? I find Rall unreadable, but Tom Tomorrow fairly often hits right where he's aiming.

"Well, as one of the people who frequently disagrees with you, it's a pleasure having you on our side for a bit."

Seconded. Welcome aboard the Legion of the Shrill.

Irony is not dead

Google "major combat operation" today:

News results for major combat operation - View today's top stories
Iraq: US Army launches major combat operation - Al-Bawaba - 10 hours ago
Troops Launch Major Combat Operation in Iraq - Washington Post - 12 hours ago
US Launches Combat Operation in Iraq - Los Angeles Times - 18 hours ago

President Bush Announces Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended
Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my
fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. ...
www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/rm/20203.htm - 34k - Cached - Similar pages

CNN.com - Bush calls end to 'major combat' - May. 2, 2003
From the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln, President Bush announced in a
nationally televised address that major combat operations in Iraq have ended.
www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/01/sprj.irq.main/ - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

Oh, Slarti, let me just add:

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Slartibartfast R'lyeh wagn'nagl fhtagn!

I don't think that Slsrt is generally opposing our efforts in Iraq, but he may correct me if I'm wrong.

Dialing up the way-back machine, I found this press release from Durbin:

December 17, 1998


DURBIN STATEMENT ON MILITARY ACTION AGAINST IRAQ
I fully support President Clinton and our national security team's decision to take swift action against Saddam Hussein.

The attack against this dictator should come as no surprise.

The record clearly shows that he has harassed American and United Nations inspectors, ordered the destruction of important documents in anticipation of inspections and hampered the ability of inspectors to carry out their mission. His defiant protection of his weapons of mass destruction cannot go unanswered.

The mission has bipartisan support, including U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms (R-NC), Chairman of the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee; U.S. Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN); and U.S. Sen. John Warner (R-VA), incoming Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisors to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad.

The men and women who are risking their lives in defense of our national and global security deserve nothing less.


I don't think that Slsrt is generally opposing our efforts in Iraq, but he may correct me if I'm wrong.

No correction needed, DaveC.

Reading the above:, Slart has taken one (1) position that the liberals here agree with, and it's a position on an issue that really should not separate liberals from conservatives at all. I really admire him for going up against people he normally agrees with, which is hard; but I think we should all hold off on welcoming him into the order of the shrill and so forth, since afaik he's still the conservative we all know and love.

Okay, to comment on the electrical power issue and not the moral/political one: Check your grounding. Buy one of those $5 widgets that plugs into an outlet and tells you if the outlet is wired properly or not by which lights come on. A surge suppressor shunts the surge to ground; if an outlet isn't grounded, you might as well not have the surge suppressor there at all. I lost a bunch of electronics in an older and haphazardy-wired house before I figured this out.

I don't think that Slsrt is generally opposing our efforts in Iraq

I was hoping that DaveC could explain a little more precisely what 'generally opposing our efforts in Iraq' means and entails.

I was hoping he'd explain what seven-year-old comments from Durbin regarding "presenting a united front" have to do with keeping silent about prisoner mistreatment.

Tom Tomorrow is way down on the list of my worries, DaveL. Plus, even less talented than Ted Rall, and half the charm.

I'm going to second DaveL. Tom Tomorrow at least keeps a persepctive that is both humanistic and insane, whereas Rall has gone off into Ba'athist la-la land. And This Modern World usually made me laugh. More importantly TMW stayed funny (for the most part) after 9/11 and the Iraq unpleasantness, whereas Rall's have essentially become an enumeration of Ba'athist talking points.

hilzoy,

"Reading the above:, Slart has taken one (1) position that the liberals here agree with, and it's a position on an issue that really should not separate liberals from conservatives at all. I really admire him for going up against people he normally agrees with, which is hard; but I think we should all hold off on welcoming him into the order of the shrill and so forth, since afaik he's still the conservative we all know and love."

I don't necessarily disagree, but I was referring to the reception his comments had (and undoubtedly will have in increasing volume) among the Administration's supporters.

Slarti, have a well-deserved restful and recharging vacation. Thank you.

Thanks to Slarti for sharing your epiphany on the road to Emily's school.
I only read a little of the Maquire thread--too depressing. I've been trying to find a way to characterize the people who perseverate on AI's word choice and the misinterpetation of Sen. Durbin without going into judgemental language--no "dishonest, jingoistic", etc. The closest I can get is that they are people who love their conception of America the same way an enabling spouse loves an alcoholic. They believe that any criticism is deeply threatening to their worldview and they have to defend that at all costs because they aren't prepared to have any revelatory epiphanies that might change their worldview even slightly. Like the spouse of an alcoholic, they tolerate some criticisms--their criticisms--but any criticisms from others sparks an aggressively defensive response. I can't think of any parallel thught process in myself, but I'm probably like that about somethig
Maybe nature. I can't discuss environmental issues with people I disagree with without losing my manners.
I wrote a think you letter to Sen Durban andI wrote to the members of my Congressional delegation, asking them to support Durbin too. My Congressman is a Dino and I really despise him.

Lily: sympathies. My congressman supports the repeal of the estate tax, although why the devastatingly compelling arguments I have offered in my many fervent letters on this topic have failed to move him, I cannot imagine ;) Ugh.

Very cool, so soon after Bloomsday, that the skies open and Slart has his very own crack of thunder and accompanying lightening storm. I wonder, if Joyce had known about surge protectors, how that might have symbolically blocked the force of his character's epiphany?

I expect, soon, a 100-or-so-page report, sans punctuation, on Slart's wife's soliloquy.

Sorry about the electronic damage, but I do enjoy Slart's inclusion of the quotidian travails of every day life with his political discussions.

I would be curious to read a post from Slart (now that his patriotism has been impeached) on how the individual instances of Delay, Norquist, the Durbin critics at Maguire's place, and now the anti-International Red Cross meany folks in the Senate might be construed to comprise a new kind of Republican species, with similar markings and utterances and predictably hostile responses to their environment. Not that they didn't exist before in their niches, but that they have gained some sort of evolutionary momentum and threaten a sort of crowding out of .... even Slart.

Could it be similar to circa 1972, when the long-haired peacenik, Commie me (my hair has changed since then) voted for Richard Nixon after having examined up close the revolutionary rhetoric of the SDS and SLA wannabees during some campus building takeovers (inside with them)?* I then proceeded to hope fervently for Nixon's impeachment and, of course, I would vote for George McGovern, the war-hero, peacenik, Commie today. But I have strange responses to my political environment, too.

* I know many of these folks have gone on to exemplary careers, probably law, with all the rewards including nice tax breaks. I wonder how many now work for the Republican Party as today's conduit for the identical rhetorical hatred of government, especially those nasty taxes. And what about that secular culture?

In case anyone's wondering: we finally broke it up at about 2:30 (this was supposed to be just a happy hour bash, not an all-nighter), and at that point I'd had about five martinis and very little to eat. So, I was out of bounds WRT Tom Tomorrow, but I still don't see the attraction. And yes, hilzoy is correct, I'm still the conservative you've known and loved/tolerated/reviled.

And now I've got to get some sleep. Attempted to debug main system, but I can't get it to power up, and my other box has a slightly different power supply. I'm thinking motherboard, but I'm also thinking I want to be rather sure the HDD is ok before I start making purchases.

Thanks for the suggestions re: power; all our grounding is just fine. As for those $5 thingies; I think I've got three of them floating about, and I actually built one back in high school. And bob: I seriously doubt you're pumping 3000 amps, unless you've got some revolutionary new low-voltage home power lashup. 3000 amps = 360kVa, which is equivalent to about a quarter of a megawatt.

And now: bedtime. My youngest woke me just before 7am and I've been going all day.

"So, I was out of bounds WRT Tom Tomorrow, but I still don't see the attraction."

Blog or comic strip? Regardless, I have to say that I think vastly more highly of Dan Perkins than I do of Rall, although that's truly damning with faint praise. I actually respect Dan, despite having various differences of opinion and perspective with him. Ted Rall, well, um, I guess it's good that he cares about events passionately, and I'd say the same of Pat Buchanan.

Sleep tight.

Ok, I didn't go to bed as advertised.

I'm trying to figure out the extent of the damage; it's pretty clear that my main system has either a hosed power supply or motherboard or both. What's less clear is if the HDD is dead. What I did was pull an old PC out of the garage and replace its HDD with the one from my main system, and then attempt to boot. I boot in safe mode/command prompt, and I get this string of messages:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS\System32\c_437.nls
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS\System32\l_intl.nls
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS\System32\Drivers\ACPI.sys

and then it just stops. Can anyone help?

I was hoping that DaveC could explain a little more precisely what 'generally opposing our efforts in Iraq' means and entails.

I meant that I think that Slart is not in favor of just packing up and leaving.

What I did was pull an old PC out of the garage and replace its HDD with the one from my main system, and then attempt to boot.

The CMOS settings are probably wrong (cylinders / sectors / heads) or the BIOS can't handle that size of disk. You might try resetting the disk and press the delete key to get into CMOS setup, and then try to auto-detect the hard drive type.

I'd done that, but it seemed to have autodetected just fine. But this is an early incarnation of Plug 'n' Play we're talking about, here, so it may not have done so properly. I'll recheck. It is a 60 GB HDD, and I think that wasn't even close to available when this other computer was built. It was built in late 1998, so there's always that possibility. It's also possible that Ultra DMA wasn't supported back then, but I wouldn't think that would affect accessibility, only speed.

I'm thinking of booting the other machine with a Linux floppy and seeing if I can see files on the HDD, but I'm not sure if that's going to get me anywhere.

Oh, and oddness: I had to take the DVD player apart because it had a rental disk in it (it refused to power up). Once I ejected the disk, I got out my multimeter to see if the power supply was working, and it powered up. Weird; it was completely nonfunctional before that.

So, Dads: case in point that simply taking things apart and poking around in the innards can accomplish something. What that was, though, is still a mystery.

Happy Father's Day Slarti!!!

and all the other Dads out there too.

"multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS\System32\Drivers\ACPI.sys"

I have run into terrible problems with old motherboards and Windows new power management systems. This dll is the one that shuts down your harddrive(etc) after 15 minutes of idleness. It also prevents overloads. I was told to flash a new bios.

I think it can be disabled, in system/device management and/or bios settings.

Moving a Windows NT/2000/XP boot disk to a different hardware platform and trying to boot often fails. I went through a long process (finally successful!) including calls to Microsoft tech support (*not* very helpful) when I replaced my laptop (I wanted to keep my installed software and configuration).

Slart, booting with Linux (I recommend the Knoppix CD) and examining the disk is a good idea.

If it seems like files are there, first make a copy of the hard drive, then try booting the Windows setup CD and ask it to "upgrade" the OS rather than doing a fresh install. This often works. You may have to re-install a few things afterward but it's pretty good at preserving the configuration.

If the BIOS doesn't support the large hard drive, besides a BIOS upgrade, an alternative is to install an IDE plug-in controller -- I've had good luck with controllers from Promise. Usually that will do the trick.

Ah, it wasn't strictly a BIOS issue after all. After booting my other system (RedHat 8.0) with that drive as slave, I discovered that it doesn't look like a normal disk drive: it's got a partition (the first one) that's invisible to Windows that contains some Dell utilities, and the other partition (the actual WinXP one) I can't read yet because it's formatted ntfs. I ought to be able to see it tonight, but it's obvious that the drive is working. I'm not sure, but I have to think this is the combination of BIOS and boot sector. This disk won't boot the other machine, and the only real difference is BIOS. Unless this disk is somehow protected so it won't boot another machine because of some silly WinXP restricted-use horsepucky.

In short, I think the whole problem is in the motherboard. For those of you who aren't geeks (and I certainly can't lay claim to geekdom), the reason the motherboard is important is that the ATX power supply switches on via the motherboard. I've already tested the physical switch, and it's fine. And the reason I can't just go read the second partition is that AFAIK no Linux distribution supports even read access to ntfs, which is apparently fairly arcane (I've seen some speculation that it's arcane in part to make life harder for the people like me who like to have a dual-boot system). The reason I'll be able to read it tonight is that some people have figured out how to provide for ntfs access under several of the reasonably recent Linux kernels, and mine happens to be one of them. So, tonight I apply a patch, reboot, and I ought to be ready to go.

Last night I was explaining this to Lydia, and she asked me how I knew all this. "I didn't know you were such a techie," she says. And then I pointed out to her all the times she'd gotten upset with me for endless fiddling with the computer, and she got this "aha" look on her face. Hopefully, the idea that such puttering-about can be a learning process is now taking root.

So, tonight I apply a patch, reboot, and I ought to be ready to go.

Hope so. Good luck!

And then I pointed out to her all the times she'd gotten upset with me for endless fiddling with the computer, and she got this "aha" look on her face. Hopefully, the idea that such puttering-about can be a learning process is now taking root.

Hope so. Good luck! ;-)

Slarti, the Knoppix CD is a (basically Debian) Linux distribution that boots and runs from the CD. The kernel includes NTFS support. It is a great tool.

Good luck, I hope you can bring things back to life. Oh well, at least motherboards are cheap nowadays.

I'll have to check that out, ral, but by the time you'd made that suggestion I'd already hooked up my main system drive as slave and discovered that it had active, valid partitions, which is one bit of evidence that the drive still lives. Whether or not it's bootable remains to be seen.

Oh. ntfs support. Damn. I'm on it. THANKS! I'll let you know how it works out; this is surely better than RPMing my current kernel.

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