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May 06, 2005

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Keep an eye on Cheap Stingy Bastard. If you jump on them quick enough, you can get some amazing deals on laptops (among other things).

If it were a desktop, I'd say just have someone who knows their stuff build it for you from Newegg parts... but my knowledge of laptops is slim.

I will say, however, that we swear by Dells here at my work.

Obviously that martini wasn't dry enough.

I'll slink away now before I tell you to just get a Mac, cultist that I am.

Obviously that martini wasn't dry enough.

LOL...

Keep an eye on Cheap Stingy Bastard.

Will do...thanks!

Edward, you might think about a mac (I would have gone that way, except that I needed to run statistical applications). If you only need e-mail/web browser/office software, you should be able to use a mac. Given all of the malware problems, it's getting to the point where keeping a clean computer is almost impossible. Where I work, a computer guy said that they were losing the battle against malware, because so many new items were coming out every week.

The main reason I'm resistant to getting a Mac is it's not compatible with the galleries printer. Of course I could get a new printer as well, I imagine, but I like my current one.

What's malware?

I've bought two Dells and have been completely happy with them--no problems, reasonably priced, good support.

Last year I got an Averatec laptop for around $800. Small, light, cheap. It's ok, though I've never lugged it around - mostly it sits in our kitchen.
If I had more money, I love the display quality on eth Sony Vaios.
HTH.

I love the display quality on eth Sony Vaios

That's what I had. ;-(

Mmmm...Sony X-505. So thin. So expensive.

Or, to be honest, I have at least three friends who swear by their somewhat clunky but dirt-cheap Dells; they are plenty fast, have big HDs, and good support from Dell. In fact, they are havin' a sale as we speak. A bunch of nice ones for under (sometimes well under) a grand.

Having made a constructive suggestion, I now feel like I can say - seriously, get a mac. I run one from home and have had zero compatibility problems with my windows office network; those issues are really a thing of the past as far as I can tell, and I got a wireless network up and running in my house for $200, including the internal card and the base station. Which is doit cheap. An a good imac is only like a thousand bucks.

I have a BRAND NEW, NEVER USED(honest)laptop for sale. It is an HP Pavilion dv1170 Notebook PC. Never used because it was for my son who is in Iraq, and he decided he needed something else. My husband is going to put it for sale on eBay just as soon as he can figure out how to do that. We would like $1250 for it.

anyone else allergic to macs? am I the last hold out?

I'm on a Toshiba Satellite right now; great display.

Is the contrite one being contrite to the point of kicking in some dollars toward the purchase of a new machine, dare I ask?

I'm not allergic to Macs, they're just designed for a market that I happen not to be in.

Miriam

what size hard drive?

I agree with Slarti. Macs are nice, but limited for certain markets.

I'm on a Toshiba Satellite right now; great display.

That's my laptop as well. I'm blindingly ignorant about this stuff, but I will say that it doesn't annoy me in any way I've noticed.

There are two basic problems I have with Macs. The first problem is Apple: for a company and community who does so much bitching about the Microsoft monopoly, they sure don't have a problem with their own monopoly on hardware, nor with how hideously overpriced it is as a result. I can build a new desktop PC for a fraction of the price of a comparable Mac.

The second problem is software: there simply isn't any that I want to use, and the stuff integrated with the OS makes me cringe. QuickTime is the second-worst video format out there, and Apple's love affair with Adobe--maker of some of the most overpriced and overrated bloatware in existence--is a dealbreaker. The Mac's lack of games goes without saying, and in addition, I tend to use a lot of random, obscure applications which simply have no counterpart on the Mac.

I would /like/ to like Macs. I'm certainly no big fan of Windows. But they're just useless to me for anything except web browsing and playing music.

edward -

No, of course not. There are a million reasons not to get a mac:

- Macs are absolutely a more opaque system that either windows or (obviously) linux, and if you like to get into the real guts of your system, it's no picnic on a mac.

- Macs are more expensive, on the whole, both for the hardware and any accessories (except the wireless thing - I don't know of a cheaper wireless solution than the AirPort Express), for example, I just paid $90 for a replacement power cord for my PowerBook (compared to about 60 for a dell).

- There are some internet applications you have to go and get for macs; windows media player for example (though if apple gets its way, the superior quicktime will complete its conquest of the world and solve that little problem).

- One button mouse! Aarrgh. (Well, you can fix this problem with an outboard mouse, but the laptop comes with a one-button built in trackpad, and it's annoying if you are used to all the cool right-click menus in Windows).

- Mac updates its OS like twice as often as MS, and there can be critical changes in upgrades. This is a mixed bag, as they usually are bundling a whole bunch of new cool stuff into the updates (garageband! are you kidding me?), as opposed to the MS tactic of sending out a spitball of bug patches and calling it an "upgrade", but mac is pretty aggressive about requiring the latest version of X to smoothly run newer hardware (I had a hell of a time getting the wireless network up until I upgraded to Panther - then everything went like smooth, smooth butter).

- Ironically and generally, Apple is more of a niche item, maintaining rigid control of its product line (big brother indeed!), just as they did in the 80s when they became one of the biggest missed opportunities in the history of American business. In the current market, this may make a lot more sense than it did back then, but the undeniable fact is this - if you buy a mac, you are going to go back to the mothership for everything else you need, and pay a premium for the privilege. There just isn't this vast ecosystem of secondary hardware vendors like there is for Windows. This is obviously connected to the dominance of MS, a software company that doesn't compete with, or care much about, the hardware market.

This is too long by half, but anyhow, all of the above are legitimate reasons to dislike macs (flame on, zealots!)

But my friend, they are so beautiful, and everything works, and I realized long ago that I am not now, nor will I ever be, a power user that needs, for example, to verify the status of an individual sector on my hard drive. I need the thing to do what it does, every time, with no crashes, lost data, viruses, clumsy ad- and spy-ware, or any of the other crud and bad cholesterol that accrued to, slowed down, and rendered frustrating every windows machine I ever had (and I ran windows for YEARS). And my wife's a teacher, so Apple basically gave me a free iPod. So there.

The most use I had for Macs was way back in the day, about fifteen years ago. Their most useful tools, to me, were Cricket Graph and MacDraw. Several years later I made use of one solely because we had an astronomy package that was written only for Mac. They ought to have named it Astronomy Domine, but I think the rights to that were taken.

if the martini was spilled on a Mac, it would have hiccuped, smiled, then done a diagnostic and cleaned itself off :)

I'd like to like Apple too, especially since no one really writes viruses for them.

Buuut, my wife uses a G4 laptop for her work in advertising. She'd gone thorugh, I think 4 or 5 in 2-3 years, HD pukes, Screen death, general hassles.

My IBM laptop? A rock. I've got a T21 I bought from a dying employer in '02, stil works great. And the T41 I have for work is even better, built in wifi, big screen and the little nubbin mouse that I like better than a trackpad.

Still, I'd like to like Apple.

I just bought a Dell 600M 10 days ago -- good convex combination of value (cheap), size (small) and power (mid-range).

My recent experiences (desktop, plasma tv, laptop) have been that Dell is always the best.

Stated differently, I've become a complete Dell whore.

P.S. If you have any intention of going wireless, be sure to get a Centrino machine.

i've had many Dells. my first laptop developed a bad power supply (which costs more to fix than buying a whole new laptop). my new Dell laptop is their super skinny, super light model. i love it for travelling. it's not the fastest and the screen is small, but for checking email and browsing while on the road, it's ideal.

My recent experiences (desktop, plasma tv, laptop) have been that Dell is always the best.

I'm hearing that message.

Question for Dell enthusiasts...what's the quality of the display? This is for an art gallery.

what's the quality of the display
not as good as the vaio, but even the average displays are quite good these days - I think you would be satisfied. Plus Dell sells cheap flatscreen monitors as add-ons that are really good, in my experience.

Edward,

I have a Gateway M275 and highly recommend it. It is a convertible notebook/tablet that combines the best of both. I use it primarily as a notebook at the office and as a tablet during meetings. At home I use it as a tablet to surf the 'net and if you have a wireless network set up you'll never go back to regular notebooks. I think I've ended up selling about a dozen of these just from people seeing me use it on planes. Way too cool, and I could definitely see strolling around the gallery with a client with the tablet at the ready to show them items from the catalog. Check it out.

That is a sweet machine Mac...what do you primarily use the tablet for (which applications)?

I'm definitely going to consider it. Quality of the display is good?

As the PC half of a cross-platform household, (the half that has also been looking into a new laptop recently), I would second st's anti-Mac diatribe above: yes, Apple holds onto its proprietaries (and yours) with an iron fist, and there are numerous hardware and software issues which they have never quite been able to overcome: BUT: if you are looking to use this laptop in a "gallery" context, you might want to keep in mind that Apple's graphic quality is nonpareil - especially if you have an Apple display - much better than the alternatives (however, you do pay more). If you're fixed on a Windows unit, though, Dell, I found, was a good a deal as any (unless you really need an ultralight: then go for the Sony).

PS: was a gin or a vodka martini that did your old VAIO in?

I try not to be a cultist about this, but: first, Edward, Tiger supports more printers than previous versions of the Mac OS (Brother, Canon, EPSON, HP, Lexmark, Ricoh, Xerox; also GIMP-Print.) Second, the OS isn't closed; it's based on Unix, so if you happen to be into messing around with the command line, you can do that. (And all the tools for doing that are included.)

If you are into games, I think PCs will always be best, because of market share. And there are certain specialized fields in which there is no software for the Mac, but their number is shrinking. For basically everything I've ever wanted to do, there has been wonderful software out there -- and 'what I've wanted to do' ranges from ordinary stuff to, e.g., birding record keeping and stuff. And if there isn't Mac software, there is likely to be something on Unix, which can be run on the Mac.

I'm baffled by Crionna's wife's experience. My G4 was a rock; it only died when my house was struck by lightning which overrode two (2) surge protectors, and fried a bunch of other appliances as well. My present G4 laptop is a pure delight. And as I said, I can't remember the last time it crashed.

PS: was a gin or a vodka martini that did your old VAIO in?

gin

I actually think it was the olive (the alcohol would just dry, no?)

needless to say, next opening I banning drinks from the office

there is something to be said for how a Mac looks in a gallery, I'll give you that. My desktop computer in the gallery is an iMac and it looks like a work of art itself, but personally, I don't using love it. I think like a PC. I used the laptop for 85% of everything I did.

Edward -- I bought a ThinkPad at the beginning of this year and have been quite happy with it. Expensive tho.

I use a factory-refurbished IBM ThinkPad. Mechanical quality and design very good, usually supported by all software (X11 "just works" on every Unix or Linux distribution I've tried, unlike some laptops), reasonable prices, good display, GOOD DOCUMENTATION (.pdf's on the IBM web site).

I'm baffled by Crionna's wife's experience.

It gets used pretty hard.

Oh, Edward, forgot to link ya up:

offical averatec site:
http://www.averatec.com/

unoffical user forum
http://www.averatecforums.com/

those are beautiful votermom

Hilzoy:
Thank your protective gremlins for whatever kept *your* G4 rock-like: my wife's first Titanium was a godawful lemon which had to go back to Apple no less than five times in 3 years for various hardware issues, and finally expired from a harddrive crash a year ago, which led Apple to embarassedly replace the damn thing entirely. FWIW, she has NO problems with the replacement (on which I am typing now), expect for a wonky catch. Curious, minor manufacturing issues seem to be the Achilles' heel for Macs - my 5-yr-old VAIO has never had but a single need for service.
Oh, and Edward:

gin

I actually think it was the olive

Well, there you go.....
if it had been with twist, you wouldn't have had the problem! ;)

Well, I must be blessed, since I started using macs in 1984, I think, because I like to draw on computers and at that time PCs still had a command-line interface; and nary a one has had issues. I did get a virus once, in 1988, when I got my first hard drive, and suddenly the games disk that my little brother had given me, and which had been infected all that time without bothering anyone, since it was not in contact with anything else, suddenly got a whole hard drive to infect, and went to town. And I had a bad printer when I was writing my dissertation. Since then, nada.

I've had a Dell Latitude X300 for about 21 months now and its been great. I am starting to have an issue with the display starting to burn some bright spots now...so that could be something to consider. I do put more hours on this thing than I'd care to count though and I can't remember 2 actual crashes that I've had with it. Support has been great when I've needed it which was only to replace a defective AC power cord (the nice thing was that they included 2 when I originally bought the machine)and to replace the little rubber feet on the bottom of the thing.

Good price, decent battery life and excellent portability. Pulls in a wireless signal when a few of the laptops my friends have won't.

I've had a Dell Latitude X300 for about 21 months now and its been great. I am starting to have an issue with the display starting to burn some bright spots now...so that could be something to consider. I do put more hours on this thing than I'd care to count though and I can't remember 2 actual crashes that I've had with it. Support has been great when I've needed it which was only to replace a defective AC power cord (the nice thing was that they included 2 when I originally bought the machine)and to replace the little rubber feet on the bottom of the thing.

Good price, decent battery life and excellent portability. Pulls in a wireless signal when a few of the laptops my friends have won't.

Another Mac plug, echoing Hilzoy. We must be on our fifteenth or so Mac since '84, have found them all very reliable. My wife was on PCs for most of last 20 years because of various statistical packages, but when the last Gateway succumbed to a million viruses she also got a Powerbook G4. Very happy with them, and as someone said, the graphics on the big ones are gorgeous (though as a text-basher I have never had any excuse for buying one). Edward_, go to an Apple Store and check out the really big monitors--tell me they don't belong in a gallery.

"What's malware?"

Posted by: Edward

Edward, it's a generic term for spyware, adware, virii, worms, and whatever new categories of unwanted harmful software have recently been invented.

That is a sweet machine Mac...what do you primarily use the tablet for (which applications)?

Edward, sorry to take a while to get back to you. I use the tablet mode for taking notes during meetings. The One Note application is really quite good. I also use it to discretely read blogs and news while in boring meetings… If you need to read a bunch of stuff online or in Word docs, it's nice to put it into tablet mode and sit back on the couch or nice chair a read it that way rather than hunched over the keyboard. I also use it to sketch out ideas and illustrations that I'd like to have in electronic form.

In your situation, you would use the pen like a mouse and could stand in front of artist's work and show a client other examples of the artist's on your notebook. Would bring a nice techno sizzle factor to your gallery.

I'm definitely going to consider it. Quality of the display is good?

Very good. One of the reasons I like this unit is that makes an excellent notebook. Other convertibles like the Toshiba make better tablets because they are smaller, but the screen is too small for everyday notebook use. This has a 14.1" XGA TFT Active Matrix with 1024 x 768 resolution 24-bit 16.7 million colors. For people who need a true tablet and would walk around with it 8 hours a day, there are better units for that. For how you would likely use it, I bet you'll think it's the bee's knees.

Let me suggest that if your biggest concern is malware, one easy way to solve that is to use an alternative browser instead of Internet Exploder. I personally suggest Firefox, as I have been using it for several years and have had absolutely no virus issues. I occassionally do a scan for spyware and have had surprisingly little problem with that as well. Moreover, I haven't had an actual "blue screen of death" crash for nearly a decade.

"I'm baffled by Crionna's wife's experience."

It gets used pretty hard.

Dear lord. I was skimming this thread pretty quickly and I missed the word "experience" in that exchange...

I had the same "huh?" with that Anarch. Between that and constantly seeing people refer to "Mac" made skimming this thread a unique experience.

Well, it isn't that she doesn't constantly baffle me, but in a good way...

I can build a new desktop PC for a fraction of the price of a comparable Mac.

Narf? A 1.46GHz Mac Mini with a gig of RAM and an 80GB hard drive'll run you ~$800, which is about what a comparable PC costs. Ars Technica's ultimate budget box comes in for less than that, but that's due in large part to the fact that they cheap out on the RAM and use a smaller hard drive.

Most Apple hardware *is* pricey, but then again their machines are usually built to a pretty high spec.

I love my Mac, inclusive of the computer, the whiskey, and hell. . even the commentator. Also most Scots.

Get better taste. :-p

I like Macallan's idea. If you're looking for a true notebook, though, let me add my voice to the Dell-choir.

Incidentally, for those shopping for a home moniter, at least consider Dell's combined TVs/monitors (see, e.g., this one: http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/lcd_w1900?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs). Got one for my home office; prior to that point, I thought there was nothing better than checking e-mail, drafting a nasty letter, and blogging (all at once). I was wrong. Adding channel surfing to the mix via a P-i-P TV makes the experience sooooo much richer.

They ought to have named it Astronomy Domine, but I think the rights to that were taken.

Why not Ummagumma, instead?

(Also, the IP lawyer in me also wants to add "not necessarily," but we'll ignore him.)

We must be on our fifteenth or so Mac since '84, have found them all very reliable

Lemme see...fifteen computers, eleven years...something does not compute. So to speak.

Not Ummagumma because it was an astronomy program.

Trivia: (apropos of Scots and Pink Floyd) for a while, one of my favorite songs was Seven Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving With a Pict. Technically, I'm not sure it qualifies as a song, but there is a animal-jam somewhere in the middle.

Slart, I now understand so much of what you write: you're stuck in 1995!

Let me tell you a little about what's been going on since then . . .

And, for the record, though anecdotal data is pretty much useless in these situations (and the overall data shows that upkeep of Macs tends to be MUCH less expensive), but Mac laptops tend to be really, really resistant to physical damage. My step-brother has a five-year-old TiBook that he's dropped down concrete stairs, and it works as well as any five-year-old laptop. I bang mine around all the time, and no problem. One wife even fried her husband's laptop at 400 degrees in an oven, and other than replacing the LCD, everything worked.

And you seem to be assuming they're a one-computer household. For the past five years at least, my nuclear family has had almost twice as many computers as people. Desktop each and a few laptops. Only real problem since 1989 was a failing motherboard in a three-year-old iMac. My current desktop has barely been turned off in three years, much less had any crashes. Ever.

Plus, for all you Mac people: you can download my Philosophers' Birthdays iCal, and never forget Kierkegaard's birthday again. (It was yesterday, along with Marx's.)

maybe you could get one of the red-circle computers they use on Alias. they look kinda like rebadged Macs, but the interface is really cool - lots of 3D-ish swooping windows, groovy bleepy computer noises! and they seem to know exactly what you want to do, any time you use it - just type stuff like "find reactor power switch" or "ID this face" or "enhace this webcam picture of this naked chick so i can read the license plate on the car across the street".

i bet they can play the hell out of an MP3.

Wouldn't it be kind of . . uh. . antithematic. . to celebrate Kierkegaard's birthday? Especially if you bought him presents.

When I was in college, I was writing a paper on Kierkegaard, and was sort of obsessed by it, and my friends threw a surprise party on his birthday, complete with a black cake and a T-shirt that said: Kierkegaard: 187 years of angst! (or however many years it was then.)

I have excellent friends.

Just got back to my desk. Thanks to everyone for all the very generous advice. At lunch I snuck out to J&R's (it was a longish lunch)

Edward_, go to an Apple Store and check out the really big monitors--tell me they don't belong in a gallery.

They are gorgeous, but also much pricier than the PCs. I'm gonna have to think about this. Being able to network to the iMac would be a nice advantage, but the extended warranty (which I'm definitely getting) is more than twice that of the Gateway's and Toshibas.

Macallan, they didn't have your tablet either. They said they don't sell enough to keep 'em in stock. Did you get your online?

I've had very good luck with Fujitsu laptops and their extended warranty plan is both cheap and useful in my experience.

Not Ummagumma because it was an astronomy program.

Ahh. I missed the context. "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun," then?

"Is There Anybody Out There?"
or maybe "Obscured By Clouds'. Lots of options, really. Floyd was very astronomical.

Macallan, they didn't have your tablet either. They said they don't sell enough to keep 'em in stock. Did you get your online?

Yep. We've ended up buying 5 more of them at the office since I got mine. People see me use it and get all green eyed and start begging me to upgrade.

Sheeesh, enough with the anecdotal stories which mean almost nothing. Of the 622 computers I service on my HS campus half are pc's half are macs. 44% more service calls on pc's. nearly 26% more hardware (cd,monitors) failures on pc's. Let's see, virus's pc: nearly every day if virex isn't updated. Mac's 0.

I can get your printer to work in OSX. Get a Mac.

I can get your printer to work in OSX.

Really? Cause I got OSX on the iMac, but couldn't figure out how to do it. I went online and the HP site suggested it was incompatible with my iMac (i.e., there was no Mac driver to download)...is there some trick to it?

HP website is pretty bad (confirmed by computer people where I used to work). If you can't find out how to do something from their website, it's probably the website's fault.

macallen and von have me drooling. I want both a tablet/laptop and and home flatscreen monitor/tv. THUD.

What I can have is my Dell laptop, which is in use at least 16 hours a day, constantly, and is holding up beautifully (thank goodness). 18 more months of PhD work and I can afford to upgrade from this one, which is a valiant little creature, considering it's running everything on 256ram and Windows Me.

I loved hearing everyone praise Dells because if this shuts down? I'm in big, big trouble. I run Adaware and my virus software every night.

How old is your printer? If your router has a printer port, plug it in there. Bang, you have a network printer and everything can talk to it.

"if this shuts down? I'm in big, big trouble."

Backup your dissertation frequently, please. Hard drive crashes aren't leprechauns. They are real and dark and their fangs are long. Even hearing secondhand about people only keeping one copy of sensitive data is like fingernails on chalkboard for me.

printer's about two years old. I connect with a USB port to the PC. What's a router?

Opus, from Froogle, it looks like 256mb ram runs $0-100 USD. It'b be worth getting.

opus, seriously, man, back that s**t up and give the disk to your mother. I don't even know you and I'm suddenly nervous as all hell.

On July 3, 2002, I was just finishing a 100-page set of comments on an administrative rulemaking that were due to be submitted on the day after the 4th. I experienced a crazy-ass MSWord/hard drive glitch that ate the only copy of the working file, which I had been stupidly toting around on my personal laptop as I traveled for another case. The comments were cratered, and I had to revert to the last saved version on the firm system before I had left on my trip, which was, to say the least, inchoate, maybe 15-20 pages. I nearly quit my job when it dawned on me what had happened.

Don't let it happen to you!

I try not to comment on these sorts of discussions, because I love my Mac but I hate platform zealotry. But the below is just wrong:

There are two basic problems I have with Macs. The first problem is Apple: for a company and community who does so much bitching about the Microsoft monopoly, they sure don't have a problem with their own monopoly on hardware, nor with how hideously overpriced it is as a result. I can build a new desktop PC for a fraction of the price of a comparable Mac.

Monopoly is not a synonym for proprietary. Apple does not have a monopoly in any meaningful sense. Yes, they maintain proprietary control over both the hardware and the software components of the platform. But there is nothing anticompetitive about this, as there are other platforms out there that compete very nicely, thank you. The tight integration of hardware and software has disadvantages in terms of price and flexibility, but it has undeniable advantages in terms of stability, ease-of-use, and performance. If, like me, you put a high priority on those things, Macintosh is a good choice for you. If price, selection of components, and all around flexibility is a higher priority, then go with Windows or Linux.

The second problem is software: there simply isn't any that I want to use, and the stuff integrated with the OS makes me cringe. QuickTime is the second-worst video format out there, and Apple's love affair with Adobe--maker of some of the most overpriced and overrated bloatware in existence--is a dealbreaker. The Mac's lack of games goes without saying, and in addition, I tend to use a lot of random, obscure applications which simply have no counterpart on the Mac.

Games are a given. Lack of market share, plus recent developments with non-cross-platform middleware components, plus Microsoft poaching the Mac's premiere developer to make an obscure launch title for the X-Box, means nobody who buys their computer for gaming first and foremost is going to buy a Mac. But your objection about Adobe makes no sense. Apple trounced Adobe in the video editing market, so much that Adobe simply gave up on developing Premiere for Mac. The companies compete as well as cooperate (when Adobe doesn't turn tail and run), just as Apple does with Microsoft. Photoshop is Photoshop. It's a killer app with no comparable alternative, but it is cross-platform. I make my living off of Adobe apps, and I of all people think Adobe needs as much competition as possible, but Apple is part of the solution there, not part of the problem.

Oh, and as someone who deals with video professionally, I'd be interested to know what video format you consider better than Quicktime and why. I've found Quicktime to be highly reliable and flexible, and to provide a number of excellent codecs. And that was before QT7.

buy a mac anyway. I wouldn't buy anything else for myself.

Edward: a two year old HP printer won't run on a Mac? What version of OS X are you running?

I have a 20" Apple monitor that I haven't been using since the desktop died in the lightning strike, and a now-superfluous copy of Panther...

I back up religiously -- onto an external drive, and by sending my documents to myself on gmail. Thanks for worrying about me! :-)

[b]Barry[/b], my question is: can my system handle the extra RAM? I guess I've been reluctant to do anything at all to it, because it's working. Yes, I can't run too much at the same time (SPSS and Word together -- a common need -- and I can hear the creaking!), but again -- it works, and it's all I have.

Do you think I could add the memory without screwing things up?

slartibartfast--

yeah, more like 15 Macs in 21 years. As well as a dozen PCs. For a while my wife ran her own corporation, a dozen employees, a number of machines of both platform. Plus new Macs for me whenever I do my academic gypsy thing, which has been far too often.

So the large number is not proof of unreliability--it's not that we had 15 Macs *die* in 21 years, we just got various new ones before old ones had died.

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